President Donald Trump

[GwynnInTheHall]

[In the Corn]

He's not even the worst human who is also a living President. He's no Jimmy Carter, but he's also no Bill Clinton.
J

Carter and Clinton didn't kill 200,000 of their own citizens, but hey, your mileage may vary.

[Sour Masher]

Once again showing his limited capacity for thought or speech, here is the response Trump gave on a reporter asking about Barbara Lagoa...he just threw Maimi in there at the end as a random word, his thinking slipping out stream of consciousness unfiltered about how the life-time appointment could positively affect his chances in Florida. And really, that is all the matters for such an appointment, right?

“I’ve heard incredible things about her. I don’t know her,” he told reporters at the White House at the weekend. “She’s Hispanic and highly respected," he said, then adding, "Miami.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...Oge?li=BBorjTa

[onejayhawk]

Carter and Clinton didn't kill 200,000 of their own citizens, but hey, your mileage may vary.

Trump didn't either. Saying so is fake news.

Once again showing his limited capacity for thought or speech, here is the response Trump gave on a reporter asking about Barbara Lagoa...he just threw Maimi in there at the end as a random word, his thinking slipping out stream of consciousness unfiltered about how the life-time appointment could positively affect his chances in Florida. And really, that is all the matters for such an appointment, right?

“I’ve heard incredible things about her. I don’t know her,” he told reporters at the White House at the weekend. “She’s Hispanic and highly respected," he said, then adding, "Miami.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...Oge?li=BBorjTa

People say Trump does not listen to advice.

The real reason Lagoa is likely to advance in the process is her time in the Florida Supreme Court. Sure, she might help in Florida, but how much? Four years ago Barrett was teaching law at Notre Dame. Trump will have another choice in a couple more years.

J

[TranaGreg]

Trump didn't either. Saying so is fake news.
...

tactic #17 from the handbook - discredit any numbers raised by stating that they're not true & label them as "fake news" ... labeling in this way will be far more effective with casual readers than trying to counter the argument with information.

[onejayhawk]

tactic #17 from the handbook - discredit any numbers raised by stating that they're not true & label them as "fake news" ... labeling in this way will be far more effective with casual readers than trying to counter the argument with information.

Or, you can label alternate facts as fake news, as in this case. After all, Trump did not kill 200,000 people. A disease did that.

J

[Sour Masher]

Or, you can label alternate facts as fake news, as in this case. After all, Trump did not kill 200,000 people. A disease did that.

J

This is true, and people would have died no matter who was president, I'm sure, but it would have been a far smaller number if we had a president that handled this crisis better.

Can you claim with a straight face and with all sincerity that Donald Trump has provided great leadership on this pandemic? Do you honestly believe that he did not cause more Americans to die needlessly of this disease through his early and often denial of the seriousness of this pandemic, through his lack of planning and foresight by instituting a hasty travel ban, but no quarantine or testing for the many thousands of people from China who rushed back here to spread among the population unabated, through his failure to agree to pleas to manufacture masks early and distribute them to the population, for his continued insistence to downplay the pandemic and encourage careless behavior among his supporters, all of which have added up to the USA having over 20% of the world's cases and deaths despite having less than 5% of the world population? By what possible measure can you claim Donald Trump has served the people of this country well by his downplaying this pandemic, spreading false information about it (which he knew was false), failing to take the necessary early steps to stop its spread and secure materials to help us fight this disease, and in fact encouraging irresponsible behavior?

Trump has been an utter and complete failure in his response to this pandemic and no objective, honest individual can claim otherwise, without denying basic facts, eg, pretending the virus is not real, or the numbers are fake. But it is better, I suppose to a supporter, to deny reality than to admit that your Dear Leader handled something poorly.

[onejayhawk]

This is true, and people would have died no matter who was president, I'm sure, but it would have been a far smaller number if we had a president that handled this crisis better.

Can you claim with a straight face and with all sincerity that Donald Trump has provided great leadership on this pandemic? Do you honestly believe that he did not cause more Americans to die needlessly of this disease through his early and often denial of the seriousness of this pandemic, through his lack of planning and foresight by instituting a hasty travel ban, but no quarantine or testing for the many thousands of people from China who rushed back here to spread among the population unabated, through his failure to agree to pleas to manufacture masks early and distribute them to the population, for his continued insistence to downplay the pandemic and encourage careless behavior among his supporters, all of which have added up to the USA having over 20% of the world's cases and deaths despite having less than 5% of the world population? By what possible measure can you claim Donald Trump has served the people of this country well by his downplaying this pandemic, spreading false information about it (which he knew was false), failing to take the necessary early steps to stop its spread and secure materials to help us fight this disease, and in fact encouraging irresponsible behavior?

Trump has been an utter and complete failure in his response to this pandemic and no objective, honest individual can claim otherwise, without denying basic facts, eg, pretending the virus is not real, or the numbers are fake. But it is better, I suppose to a supporter, to deny reality than to admit that your Dear Leader handled something poorly.

Arguing against this are the fact that NY,NJ and MA account for 29% of the fatalities but only 11% of the population. Central to this is the 25 March order sending infected hospital patients into nursing facilities. That's not on Trump.

Even with Mark Cuomo's disaster, USA compares favorably with Western Europe and Brazil. Leave out the three states that acted stupidly and USA is better than most western industrial countries. France, where the early use of hydroxychloroquine was tested, has done better.

[Sour Masher]

Arguing against this are the fact that NY,NJ and MA account for 29% of the fatalities but only 11% of the population. Central to this is the 25 March order sending infected hospital patients into nursing facilities. That's not on Trump.

Even with Mark Cuomo's disaster, USA compares favorably with Western Europe and Brazil. Leave out the three states that acted stupidly and USA is better than most western industrial countries. France, where the early use of hydroxychloroquine was tested, has done better.

Is Trump the president of the whole country or not? Does the USA have the highest number of cases and deaths or not? You can try to cut things up and twist into a pretzel to suggest Trump has not failed us and killed Americans in doing so, but deep down, you must know you are trying to pretend failure does not exist where it is plain. Did Trump actively and passionately downplay this virus or did he not? Does he not continue to discourage mask usage? Did he do anything at all or suggest anything at all that would have lessened the case rate and deaths in the states you mentioned? And what will you say when the mortality rate of the country leaves the NY, NJ, MA area on par with everyone else (because they will, just like their case rates have)? Will you find new numbers to manipulate to pretend that Trump's response to this virus has been anything but a fatal error for the American people?

And define "compares favorably to"? What numbers suggest to you suggest that the USA has done a relatively good job with this virus? Would your bar be so low if this happened on HRC's watch? Are you capable of admitting that Trump has done a poor job on this, or anything?

[In the Corn]

Trump didn't either. Saying so is fake news.


People say Trump does not listen to advice.

The real reason Lagoa is likely to advance in the process is her time in the Florida Supreme Court. Sure, she might help in Florida, but how much? Four years ago Barrett was teaching law at Notre Dame. Trump will have another choice in a couple more years.

J

I was probably one of the last people here on RJ that felt that you were treated unfairly, but that's lost on me. I'll say to you as Trump said to Bob Woodward, "You really drank the Kool-Aid, didn't you." It sad, really (to use another favorite Trump saying).

[umjewman]

Is Trump the president of the whole country or not? Does the USA have the highest number of cases and deaths or not? You can try to cut things up and twist into a pretzel to suggest Trump has not failed us and killed Americans in doing so, but deep down, you must know you are trying to pretend failure does not exist where it is plain. Did Trump actively and passionately downplay this virus or did he not? Does he not continue to discourage mask usage? Did he do anything at all or suggest anything at all that would have lessened the case rate and deaths in the states you mentioned? And what will you say when the mortality rate of the country leaves the NY, NJ, MA area on par with everyone else (because they will, just like their case rates have)? Will you find new numbers to manipulate to pretend that Trump's response to this virus has been anything but a fatal error for the American people?

And define "compares favorably to"? What numbers suggest to you suggest that the USA has done a relatively good job with this virus? Would your bar be so low if this happened on HRC's watch? Are you capable of admitting that Trump has done a poor job on this, or anything?

If you take out the bad numbers, our numbers look great!

I wish I could have used this in college when I got a bad grade on a test. "Mom, I have a 4.0 GPA....if you take out the classes where I did not do so well."

[onejayhawk]

Is Trump the president of the whole country or not?

Yes. He also respects the rule of law, which you are not.

Does the USA have the highest number of cases and deaths or not?

Probably not. we don't have accurate numbers from China. Per million population, definitely not.

You can try to cut things up and twist into a pretzel to suggest Trump has not failed us and killed Americans in doing so, but deep down, you must know you are trying to pretend failure does not exist where it is plain.

This is just wrong. The responsibility is on the Governors, with the federal government in support. You have to twist the rule of law into a pretzel to make it the President's responsibility.

Did Trump actively and passionately downplay this virus or did he not? Does he not continue to discourage mask usage?

He did. Is there a point.

Did he do anything at all or suggest anything at all that would have lessened the case rate and deaths in the states you mentioned?

He did. He established a task force, headed by the Vice President so it had clout. When Governor's ignored Dr Fauci's advise, the results occurred.

And what will you say when the mortality rate of the country leaves the NY, NJ, MA area on par with everyone else (because they will, just like their case rates have)?

Huh?

Will you find new numbers to manipulate to pretend that Trump's response to this virus has been anything but a fatal error for the American people?

No. You will find new numbers to pretend that it is Trump's response that was the problem.

And define "compares favorably to"?

Look at a table ordered by deaths per million population. US is not near the top. France has done better. Germany and Israel have done much better.

What numbers suggest to you suggest that the USA has done a relatively good job with this virus?

Same, though I would say fair or decent rather than fairly good.

Would your bar be so low if this happened on HRC's watch?

If HRC were President, it would still be the Governor's responsibility.

Are you capable of admitting that Trump has done a poor job on this, or anything?

Sure. He spends way too much.

[Sour Masher]

And this is why I sometimes think we just need to split the country and go to our separate corners and see how that works. Anyone who thinks Trump has done a good job with the pandemic is not someone I want voting for the leader of my country, and I'm sure you, 1jay, and others who think he has done super great feel the same about me and mine who think he has clearly done horribly at it. We just don't even see the same reality. How can we ever agree on strategies for success when we don't even see the same game?

ETA: Oh, and if he had actually done a good job of keeping the virus from spreading in the US, he wouldn't have to spend so much now to save the economy. Since the loss of lives seems not to bother you, maybe that point will hit home how poorly Trump has done. His inaction and actions have added trillions to our debt.

[Ken]

Look at a table ordered by deaths per million population. US is not near the top.

Wait, what? Yes we are absolutely near the top in deaths per million.

And it gets worse when you consider population density, since we are far more spread out than those with more deaths/million (which should help significantly) yet we've still been unable to control this.

[Sour Masher]

Wait, what? Yes we are absolutely near the top in deaths per million.

And it gets worse when you consider population density, since we are far more spread out than those with more deaths/million (which should help significantly) yet we've still been unable to control this.

But is it still at the top when you take out whatever the worst states are at the moment? Because Trump should get credit for the overall number minus the worst states. Nevermind that you could do that for any country in the world, if you took out the first major point of outbreak, or their worst hit area. Nevermind that each day the mortality rates in the rest of the country are catching up to NY, NJ, and Mass, who were hit earlier and thus have more deaths per 100k, wheras many states have thousands still sick, and they have the benefit of treatments that are getting better than they were. Nevermind anything at all that suggest any of this is Trump's fault. It is entirely the fault of the governors that our country has the most cases and deaths in the world.