President Donald Trump

[Bernie Brewer]

Thats a really good question. I think Trump ran them over and had no idea how to deal with him.

Honest question to the group -

What topic was the biggest reason that we have ended up with Trump?

Worst two candidates in history and a general undefinable and indiscrenable anger/frustration in middle America that their voices weren't being heard. To quote James Carville, "its the economy stupid!" The middle of America chose change over same. It was blind hope that Trump was not a continuation of Clinton/Obama or either Bush for that matter. No more polictics as usual. But, it was also Trump figuring out the Electoral College and playing the "game" to win. I truly doubt he ever thought he would win but the competition drove him. Now he has to govern and he hasn't figure that game out yet. He maybe never will.

[Bernie Brewer]

Interesting question, how did Trump get elected over all the other R candidates. There was a field full of promise, experience, intelligence to choose from. Trump was treated as a joke from the start, given a near zero chance to win his party nomination, but via nothing more than vastly greater name recognition and constantly saying mafia don style rabble rousing statements to an endless supply of tv appearances, every network was letting him on at a rate beyond anyone else so he could say his outlandish buffoonery and get the cheers and smiles and ratings.

Apathy by a large enough segment of conservatives, as well as pandering to the lowest common denominator PT Barnum style has led to the same Trump that was in election cycle, to be President.

You keep doing that. Honestly, the apathy wasn't the conservatives they came out to vote, though many voted against Trump. The people who were apathetic were the Democratic voters who assumed the win was i the bag. Look at the large cities vote totals in Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio and compare those to the traditional GOP suburban or rural vote totals.

While I disagree with the second part of your comment, You are dead on with TV free exposure.

[The Feral Slasher]

First would be the Electoral College. He got 46% of the vote, but it was concentrated just as it needed to be in order to win. He says it was planned that way. Believe that if you want to.

Second would be gullibility. Many people voted for Trump because he spouted slogans and made promises which could never be kept, and which were never intended to be kept. I've heard a zillion times "If you like your doctor...", but you don't hear the GOP complaining about Trump's broken promise that the first day in office he would repeal Obamacare. Now he says it will be next year, and maybe the year after that. And "The Wall". He's already finding ways for the U.S. to pay for it, instead of making Mexico pay. "Believe me, they'll pay." And the project itself has not been broken up into three convenient 'phases'. Phase I is a daunting 26 miles adjacent to major population centers, where materials, labor, food, lodging, etc., will not pose a logistical problem. See, I built the wall! Phase II is about 150 miles. Assuming Phase II is accomplished, and having thereby shown how easy it is, Trump can leave the simplicity of Phase III (a thousand miles or more) to the next guy. And on and on.

Third would be butthurt. This would be all the people who couldn't wrap their minds around the fact that a) Hillary was the Democratic nominee, b) Bernie wasn't the Democratic nominee, or c) both. Some of them voted Trump, some voted third party, some of them stayed home. It seems pretty clear to me, comparing 2016 numbers to 2012 numbers, that these voters could have made the difference in WI, MI and PA.

Fourth, the GOP. These were people who were loyal GOP members who voted for Trump because...they were loyal GOP members and you vote for the nominee of your party. In some ways I cannot blame them. It should never have reached the point where that became their decision.

Fifth, conservatives. Another difficult choice. Do you vote for Trump, who is supposedly the conservative candidate, or Hillary, who is supposedly the Wicked Witch of Liberalism? I think a very large number of these people supported someone other than Trump in the primaries.

There are other groups and subgroups of these listed above, but this covers the vast majority of the people who put Trump in office.

As you can see, I don't think the election turned on topics/issues so much as it did on how people viewed and/or identified with the two candidates. You can talk about the wall, but polls show a majority of Americans are against building it. A majority do not want the ACA repealed. Trump does not have a mandate on his core issues. He does not have a mandate at all, which means he needs to be much more careful in the way he handles himself from here on out.

Not a single mention of responsibility related to Hillary Clinton or the Democratic Party. Really, you don't think they have done anything that contributed to the results ? They are all just victims ?

[Redbirds Fan]

Ok, I'll admit it, it's not you, it's me! As I've expressed before, I have a problem with the name calling. Intelligent people should be able to express themselves without it (and swearing, but there I'm definitely a hypocrite). I also don't like generalizations. I think they're intellectually dishonest and often lazy. So, there it is. I particularly dislike when the leader of the free world does either. And, while Trump is doing his best to wipe my memory of any other individuals past failings, he is not alone in this. Obama did it, as did Bush and Clinton and all before them.

Again, I'm not apologist for Trump, but I think when I see someone create a narrative that I don't see, I'll call them on it, not to be a dick or criticize them, but to discuss why they made the comment. I want to understand the basis of the comment, the facts behind it not the alternate facts.

Red, I think that to say his cabinet is the least diverse since Reagan is maybe fair, but it is not devoid of people of color or thise considered to be minorities. Certainly Nikki Haley, Ben Carson, Elaine Chao, Betsy Devos (and now Linda McManon) or Kellyanne Conway would argue that point. We can certainly quibble about the quality of any of these appointees, but there is diversity. And, remember that Trump ran on the concept of political correctness has run amuck. He says things he shouldn't though I'm not sure they're racist. For instance, in response to Revo, while your personal experience is valid, come to Chicago almost any weekend and take a walk in one of the rougher south side or west side neighborhoods. Ask the people in those neighborhoods if it's wise for a for anyone to walk those streets at night. 12-15 shootings a weekend. 3-4 deaths per weekend is not uncommon. When Trump spoke about this he did so in generalizations. And as a result he lost the debate by choosing his words poorly and lazily. But, when he said to African American voters "Vote for me, what do you have to lose" was he really wrong? After decades of a Democratic monopoly on Chicago policitcs maybe a fresh approach could help. It certainly can't hurt.

Just for the sake of clarity, the 'least diverse since Reagan' language wasn't mine, but has appeared in numerous articles. At present, the cabinet consists of sixteen individuals: Ben Carson, Elaine Chao, Betsy DeVos and thirteen white guys. Nikki and Linda aren't part of the cabinet, but are considered cabinet level. Kellyanne is essentially a spokesperson. Trump has the "best people" but apparently that doesn't include a single one of the 60 million odd Latinos in the country. (And while we are at it, let's talk about the women you mentioned. DeVos showed in the Senate hearings that she has zero credentials other than having contributed massive amounts of money to Republican candidates, including the ones who voted to confirm her. McMahon's business credentials involve selling violence, sexism and deception to her audience, and even with these best-sellers, she went bankrupt once. However, she is reported to have given Trump six million dollars down the stretch. Chao did spend eight years in the Bush administration, but she is also the wife of the Senate majority leader. Funny how the women all have a little something extra going for them.)

Ben, Betsy and Elaine. I know these are the three people I think of when someone says "diversity".

[Hodor]

By this, I assume you mean his ethnicity?

What is the evidence that supports this comment? I'm all in favor of calling Trump out on his shenanigans, lying, and thin-skinedness (if that's not yet a real word, it will be), etc. There's a lot there to call him out on, why is there a need to also create a racist narrative? Maybe I missed something that he said. And I'm not interested in the law suits from the 1970s as a basis for his racist-ness. I'm interested in things he might have said over the course of the campaign or since he began forming his cabinet. Sessions, got it! What else you got, because that's not enough and there is much to counter that narrative.

In any case, I don't think Colin Powell wants anything to do with this administration, even if they came begging. I suppose like any good soldier, he would do what he could for the nation, if he thought he would be allowed to do just that without interference or manipulation.

I said, administration. Trump isn't running this shit show and even if he were he has two known bigots as close advisors.

Trump wouldn't choose him because Powell has severely criticized him. But Bannon and Miller won't have him because he's black. Period,. Exclamation point.

It's a sad truth, but truth nonetheless.

[Redbirds Fan]

Not a single mention of responsibility related to Hillary Clinton or the Democratic Party. Really, you don't think they have done anything that contributed to the results ? They are all just victims ?

You could add a group called Hillary Haters. They are not relevant, though, because they were going to vote against her regardless. Since that was an absolute given, it doesn't really require any analysis. The interesting question is why people voted for Trump.

[gcstomp]

You keep doing that. Honestly, the apathy wasn't the conservatives they came out to vote, though many voted against Trump. The people who were apathetic were the Democratic voters who assumed the win was i the bag. Look at the large cities vote totals in Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio and compare those to the traditional GOP suburban or rural vote totals.

While I disagree with the second part of your comment, You are dead on with TV free exposure.

I was articulating my view on why just R voters and why they chose Trump over a field of candidates who had promise, experience, intelligence. I was specifically talking about conservatives. It would not make sense for me to mention D voters, as I was breaking down the other side. The reason D voters didnt support HRC I have broken down before the new year, in great detail, which would just peeve people, but what the heck, as I posted like 3 months ago:
Warren said Trump ran a campaign of pure racism and bigotry as his platform. How could that win, unless that well reflects who we are? Forces involved:
1- FBI director Commey statement release a few days prior to election had some small impact, even though he did his little take backsie comment a couple days later, damage was done.
2- Russian government back hacking releasing steady stream of D only emails to influence our election had some small influence.
3- Sexism, thats a positive to bible belt. Traditional family means to many man leads family period.
4- Racism, bigotry. Build the wall gets cheers. Keep muslims out gets cheers. Trump endorsed by all the white power alt right groups.
5- Trump was a habitual liar, to such velocity no single lie he uttered had impact as by time fact checkers point out 1 item, T had already spouted 10 more, 1/2 of statements conflicting with his own that he said earlier. This again was a positive in net voting. Nothing could be disqualifying as there did not exist the 1 line item to focus on. We had HRC emails, which Sanders said we were tired of talking about some 15 months ago, but since it is the 1 simple item, we can paint in neon and focus on.
6- Air time, Trump was on air all the time, he spent budget on hats, he has decades as reality tv star, no need to spend, while others spent on commercials and polls. The value of the Trump air time estimated at 2 bil+.
7- Most important to Trump election win, mass hyper speed misinformation. Fox has the steady drumbeat of nonsense, Alex Jones, Breitbart, most venomous was Facebook, where any info released was created into something else, weaponized through the alt right filter, and this new product was misinformation spread as memes, or short quipy posts prepped by millions to more millions, with virtually no facts attached. Perception trumps reality.

[Hodor]

I would never be happier about being wrong, but after what he's already said and done without the GOP blinking, I don't see any way he gets impeached. MAYBE if the Dems get control of the house and senate, but even with a ground swell of anti-Trump sentiment, it is no lock they do it, given how many dem vs repub seats are up in 2018.

Heller is up in 18 we're working on that as we speak.

[DMT]

7- Most important to Trump election win, mass hyper speed misinformation. Fox has the steady drumbeat of nonsense, Alex Jones, Breitbart, most venomous was Facebook, where any info released was created into something else, weaponized through the alt right filter, and this new product was misinformation spread as memes, or short quipy posts prepped by millions to more millions, with virtually no facts attached. Perception trumps reality.[/I]

What's terrifying is are a large percentage of these same misinformed dumbasses still think he's doing a great job because they don't pay attention to actual news.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/donald-trump-support-popularity-vigo-county-214774

"What I heard, in conversations with nearly a dozen Trump supporters, is that like the Ameses, most of Vigo County is still “Trumped up.” All around town, folks are still buzzing about the county’s winning streak and Trump’s surprise win. You hear it in chatter at eateries like Logan’s and in coffee shops and diners such as Boo’s Crossroads Cafe & Corner Grind, which could pass as a knockoff of Luke’s Diner in the show “Gilmore Girls.” And the grist of the coastal media’s hot takes? The lies, the fumbles and faux pas that have rattled the D.C. establishment and global allies? None of it seems to resonate here."

[The Feral Slasher]

You could add a group called Hillary Haters. They are not relevant, though, because they were going to vote against her regardless. Since that was an absolute given, it doesn't really require any analysis. The interesting question is why people voted for Trump.

So why would the Democratic party push so hard for a person who is hated so much ? Oh well...I think Bernie has provided some insight into why someone might vote for Trump. I think many people who are loyal Democrats have a different picture of the last 8 years than many middle and lower class Americans.

[gcstomp]

I hope Trump ends up being a great President, and shocked us all by naming Powell as replacement. Zero chance.... It would be great if Trump fought his impulse to tweet whatever response to latest perceived slight on twitter. Again, zero chance of him stopping with the tweets. If Trump would vet his info a bit and simply stop with the lies, and develop a bit of a relationship with media, and throw out a bone that he doesnt really think CNN is "fake news" and lets have a fresh start, maybe that would be good too. Third time, zero chance there.

BTW, am I in the minority of not being on the tweet bandwagon? I dont use it. Maybe from this second on we will see the calm, composed, brilliant businessman who will translate all the resources available to him and represent US in the dignified manner we all deserve.

[Judge Jude]

I think about 20 percent of people in the U.S. are on Twitter.....

[Hodor]

Not a single mention of responsibility related to Hillary Clinton or the Democratic Party. Really, you don't think they have done anything that contributed to the results ? They are all just victims ?

With you on this. I'm not going to speculate why Trump beat the rest of the GOP slate, but Hillarys wounds were self inflicted.

Butt hurt? Try people of conviction and integrity who wanted nothing to do with with Clinton's lack of both and their refusal to capitulate. Those who excused Clinton's behavior in the primaries are no better than those who ignored Trumps lack of qualifications to be president.

As for butthurt who's been whining since the election?

Not the Sanders supporters.

[cardboardbox]

Thats a really good question. I think Trump ran them over and had no idea how to deal with him.

Honest question to the group -

What topic was the biggest reason that we have ended up with Trump?

I'm not sure, let me think about that and get back to you.

[DMT]

With you on this. I'm not going to speculate why Trump beat the rest of the GOP slate, but Hillarys wounds were self inflicted.

Butt hurt? Try people of conviction and integrity who wanted nothing to do with with Clinton's lack of both and their refusal to capitulate. Those who excused Clinton's behavior in the primaries are no better than those who ignored Trumps lack of qualifications to be president.

As for butthurt who's been whining since the election?

Not the Sanders supporters.

None of this is true, sorry.