President Donald Trump

[revo]

By this, I assume you mean his ethnicity?

What is the evidence that supports this comment? I'm all in favor of calling Trump out on his shenanigans, lying, etc. There's a lot there to call him out on, why is there a need to also create a racist narrative? Maybe I missed something that he said.

Well, there's the fact he stereotypes them as all living in burning, crime-infested ghettos, as if African-Americans are totally dependent on the white man to straighten everything out for them.

Then there's his well-documented racial "steering" cases of the early 1970s, where he was sued for discriminating against African-Americans who wanted to live in his Trump Village apartment complex in Brooklyn. FYI, I grew up near Trump Village and my high school was directly across the street from this neighborhood of apartment buildings, and I can tell you firsthand there were only white people living there ('Trump Village' is seven 25-story apartment buildings). Many of my friends' families still live there and would tell you the same.

[Redbirds Fan]

Well, there's the fact he stereotypes them as all living in burning, crime-infested ghettos, as if African-Americans are totally dependent on the white man to straighten everything out for them.

Then there's his well-documented racial "steering" cases of the early 1970s, where he was sued for discriminating against African-Americans who wanted to live in his Trump Village apartment complex in Brooklyn. FYI, I grew up near Trump Village and my high school was directly across the street from this neighborhood of apartment buildings, and I can tell you firsthand there were only white people living there ('Trump Village' is seven 25-story apartment buildings). Many of my friends' families still live there and would tell you the same.

Least diverse cabinet since Reagan.
The mere fact of picking Steve Bannon as his chief strategist.
Saying a judge was biased and incapable of performing his job just because he was "Mexican".
The Muslim ban. "Holy Korematsu, Batman!"
Birtherism.


And there is so much more. How can you leave out things that happened before his campaign? Do you think a leopard can change its spots so easily? Would Trump the racist suddenly become Trump the tolerant, or just begin to hide his feelings a little better. For example, what of the 'Central Park Five'? Do you forget that just because it happened before Trump began his campaign?

In any event, try as he may have, there were a ton of things Trump said during the campaign which showed where he stands on questions of race.

[baldgriff]

Holy crap - if the Dems could have nominated anyone other than - what was her name again?

[TranaGreg]

Holy crap - if the Dems could have nominated anyone other than - what was her name again?

didn't the repubs decide that this guy was better than all their nominees as well?

[baldgriff]

didn't the repubs decide that this guy was better than all their nominees as well?

Thats a really good question. I think Trump ran them over and had no idea how to deal with him.

Honest question to the group -

What topic was the biggest reason that we have ended up with Trump?

[TranaGreg]

Thats a really good question. I think Trump ran them over and had no idea how to deal with him.

Honest question to the group -

What topic was the biggest reason that we have ended up with Trump?

IMHO, because there's a huge portion of the country that has gotten used to things getting incrementally better decade by decade, but now can't see a future for itself.

We can argue why this is (globalization, outsourcing, changing nature of work, automation of everything, etc) ... but the reality is that this isn't going to change anytime soon.

[Gregg]

Thats a really good question. I think Trump ran them over and had no idea how to deal with him.

Honest question to the group -

What topic was the biggest reason that we have ended up with Trump?

Change...the promise of change.

[TranaGreg]

Change...the promise of change.

if you don't mind a question ...

change - for the sake of change (i.e. because things have gotten so bad anything must be better than this) ... or change towards a specific direction?

[gcstomp]

Interesting question, how did Trump get elected over all the other R candidates. There was a field full of promise, experience, intelligence to choose from. Trump was treated as a joke from the start, given a near zero chance to win his party nomination, but via nothing more than vastly greater name recognition and constantly saying mafia don style rabble rousing statements to an endless supply of tv appearances, every network was letting him on at a rate beyond anyone else so he could say his outlandish buffoonery and get the cheers and smiles and ratings.

Apathy by a large enough segment of conservatives, as well as pandering to the lowest common denominator PT Barnum style has led to the same Trump that was in election cycle, to be President.

[nots]

Thats a really good question. I think Trump ran them over and had no idea how to deal with him.

Honest question to the group -

What topic was the biggest reason that we have ended up with Trump?

I have thought a lot about this. The total votes were about what you would expect, except Trump narrowly won Pa, Wi and Mich (and crushed her in Ohio), so clearly the Rust Belt was an outlier to the rest of the results (I suppose you could argue Florida was a bit of a surprise to). Why did he do well there? Couple reasons make sense to me.
1. People there have had a rough go of it for quite awhile. Union membership has declined from about 25% of the work force down to 11% and I believe Union folks generally feel forgotten. Clinton compounded this by ignoring WI & MI.
2. TPP. Trump has always been against NAFTA and the TPP. Unlike a lot of his positions, he has stayed true to this one for decades. I think that resonated with those folks that have lost manufacturing jobs to other places. I think it was a tough sell for Clinton to say she was against an agreement that she co-authored and called the gold standard for trade agreements(talk about a leopard changing her spots). I think enough people didn't believe her to narrowly flip those 3 states and the election.

[Sour Masher]

Not making it through his term.......

I would never be happier about being wrong, but after what he's already said and done without the GOP blinking, I don't see any way he gets impeached. MAYBE if the Dems get control of the house and senate, but even with a ground swell of anti-Trump sentiment, it is no lock they do it, given how many dem vs repub seats are up in 2018.

[nots]

I also think Trump was one of the very few Republicans that could have beaten Clinton because I can't see another one that could have exploited her vulnerability in the Rust Belt. Almost all of them are anti-Union and pro- trade agreements, so if you flip those 3 states over to Clinton, how does the GOP get to 270?
They backed into somehow actually threading the needle. This election will be studied in poly-sci courses for decades.

[Sour Masher]

I also think Trump was one of the very few Republicans that could have beaten Clinton because I can't see another one that could have exploited her vulnerability in the Rust Belt. Almost all of them are anti-Union and pro- trade agreements, so if you flip those 3 states over to Clinton, how does the GOP get to 270?
They backed into somehow actually threading the needle. This election will be studied in poly-sci courses for decades.

This is a good point I hadn't fully considered before. Given how ephemeral he is on nearly every issue, his one consistent position about trade may have been the biggest factor in his victory during the general election. Although, that doesn't explain why Trump did so well in non-rust belt primaries.

[Redbirds Fan]

Thats a really good question. I think Trump ran them over and had no idea how to deal with him.

Honest question to the group -

What topic was the biggest reason that we have ended up with Trump?

First would be the Electoral College. He got 46% of the vote, but it was concentrated just as it needed to be in order to win. He says it was planned that way. Believe that if you want to.

Second would be gullibility. Many people voted for Trump because he spouted slogans and made promises which could never be kept, and which were never intended to be kept. I've heard a zillion times "If you like your doctor...", but you don't hear the GOP complaining about Trump's broken promise that the first day in office he would repeal Obamacare. Now he says it will be next year, and maybe the year after that. And "The Wall". He's already finding ways for the U.S. to pay for it, instead of making Mexico pay. "Believe me, they'll pay." And the project itself has not been broken up into three convenient 'phases'. Phase I is a daunting 26 miles adjacent to major population centers, where materials, labor, food, lodging, etc., will not pose a logistical problem. See, I built the wall! Phase II is about 150 miles. Assuming Phase II is accomplished, and having thereby shown how easy it is, Trump can leave the simplicity of Phase III (a thousand miles or more) to the next guy. And on and on.

Third would be butthurt. This would be all the people who couldn't wrap their minds around the fact that a) Hillary was the Democratic nominee, b) Bernie wasn't the Democratic nominee, or c) both. Some of them voted Trump, some voted third party, some of them stayed home. It seems pretty clear to me, comparing 2016 numbers to 2012 numbers, that these voters could have made the difference in WI, MI and PA.

Fourth, the GOP. These were people who were loyal GOP members who voted for Trump because...they were loyal GOP members and you vote for the nominee of your party. In some ways I cannot blame them. It should never have reached the point where that became their decision.

Fifth, conservatives. Another difficult choice. Do you vote for Trump, who is supposedly the conservative candidate, or Hillary, who is supposedly the Wicked Witch of Liberalism? I think a very large number of these people supported someone other than Trump in the primaries.

There are other groups and subgroups of these listed above, but this covers the vast majority of the people who put Trump in office.

As you can see, I don't think the election turned on topics/issues so much as it did on how people viewed and/or identified with the two candidates. You can talk about the wall, but polls show a majority of Americans are against building it. A majority do not want the ACA repealed. Trump does not have a mandate on his core issues. He does not have a mandate at all, which means he needs to be much more careful in the way he handles himself from here on out.

[Bernie Brewer]

Least diverse cabinet since Reagan.
The mere fact of picking Steve Bannon as his chief strategist.
Saying a judge was biased and incapable of performing his job just because he was "Mexican".
The Muslim ban. "Holy Korematsu, Batman!"
Birtherism.


And there is so much more. How can you leave out things that happened before his campaign? Do you think a leopard can change its spots so easily? Would Trump the racist suddenly become Trump the tolerant, or just begin to hide his feelings a little better. For example, what of the 'Central Park Five'? Do you forget that just because it happened before Trump began his campaign?

In any event, try as he may have, there were a ton of things Trump said during the campaign which showed where he stands on questions of race.

Ok, I'll admit it, it's not you, it's me! As I've expressed before, I have a problem with the name calling. Intelligent people should be able to express themselves without it (and swearing, but there I'm definitely a hypocrite). I also don't like generalizations. I think they're intellectually dishonest and often lazy. So, there it is. I particularly dislike when the leader of the free world does either. And, while Trump is doing his best to wipe my memory of any other individuals past failings, he is not alone in this. Obama did it, as did Bush and Clinton and all before them.

Again, I'm not apologist for Trump, but I think when I see someone create a narrative that I don't see, I'll call them on it, not to be a dick or criticize them, but to discuss why they made the comment. I want to understand the basis of the comment, the facts behind it not the alternate facts.

Red, I think that to say his cabinet is the least diverse since Reagan is maybe fair, but it is not devoid of people of color or thise considered to be minorities. Certainly Nikki Haley, Ben Carson, Elaine Chao, Betsy Devos (and now Linda McManon) or Kellyanne Conway would argue that point. We can certainly quibble about the quality of any of these appointees, but there is diversity. And, remember that Trump ran on the concept of political correctness has run amuck. He says things he shouldn't though I'm not sure they're racist. For instance, in response to Revo, while your personal experience is valid, come to Chicago almost any weekend and take a walk in one of the rougher south side or west side neighborhoods. Ask the people in those neighborhoods if it's wise for a for anyone to walk those streets at night. 12-15 shootings a weekend. 3-4 deaths per weekend is not uncommon. When Trump spoke about this he did so in generalizations. And as a result he lost the debate by choosing his words poorly and lazily. But, when he said to African American voters "Vote for me, what do you have to lose" was he really wrong? After decades of a Democratic monopoly on Chicago policitcs maybe a fresh approach could help. It certainly can't hurt.