President Donald Trump

[gcstomp]

trump has been treasonous, imo. we can state that trump has done a beautiful job of aligning himself, even parroting lines in lockstep, with putins interests.
namely the diminishing of u.s. on world stage and weakening global alliances that had russia on the outside. the hollowing out of state dept, attacks on media, gaslighting public with 12k+ lies at every single turn. this is beyond putins hopes even if he had wishes and a magic lamp.

https://themoscowproject.org/reports/putins-payout-10-ways-trump-has-supported-putins-foreign-policy-agenda/

[revo]

He literally just said "Nancy Pelosi, as far as I'm concerned, is no longer Speaker of the House." LOLOLOLOL. Awww, poor Donny Baby, another Nasty Woman.....

[Teenwolf]

Revo, you're all about polling. Tell me, have you heard what bipartisan support for impeaching Trump was at within the last month? I heard 35% supported impeachment. I don't think this is the slam dunk case that people think it is. Much like Russiagate, the scorn and contempt, and the exact type of claims being made here, "treason", "traitor", etc., those will only enrage and embolden and harden his base. They love feeling like Democrats are just corrupt partisans of a different colour, and this is the worst case to try for impeachment as far as giving Trump ammunition for re-election.

The entire case rests on 2 points:

1) Trump ran his campaign on the slogan "Lock her up!", and his adoring crowd went wild in chanting with him. Seeking to go after his political opponents is part of his appeal to his supporters. They will not care.

2) The case rests upon Trump asking Ukraine to look into interference by Joe Biden, and there's clear video evidence of Biden doing exactly what Trump is accused of, leveraging US financial support to fire a political opponent of his son's firm, who got paid $3 Mil over 2 years to act on a board he had no training or expertise in the field of...

That looks like political suicide to me. Unless the Democrats are also willing to cannibalize Joe Biden, and there's a snowball's chance in hell they would do that... then Trump gets to campaign on how corrupt the Democrats are, putting their kids in positions of power for financial gain... I know Trump does the same, but he could say his kids don't take a government salary or whatever.

It just seems like, overall, it's highly likely to be a win for Trump. I hate to say it, I think he wanted it to happen. Teflon Don made a brilliant play here, daring them to impeach... I think he saw the polls of him losing to the Dems bigly, and he took a big risk, but he knew what he wanted. He wanted to focus on the Dems corruption and hypocrisy. Now he's given a runway of a year to do exactly that right up to the election.

I hope I'm wrong.

[nots]

Revo, you're all about polling. Tell me, have you heard what bipartisan support for impeaching Trump was at within the last month? I heard 35% supported impeachment. I don't think this is the slam dunk case that people think it is. Much like Russiagate, the scorn and contempt, and the exact type of claims being made here, "treason", "traitor", etc., those will only enrage and embolden and harden his base. They love feeling like Democrats are just corrupt partisans of a different colour, and this is the worst case to try for impeachment as far as giving Trump ammunition for re-election.

The entire case rests on 2 points:

1) Trump ran his campaign on the slogan "Lock her up!", and his adoring crowd went wild in chanting with him. Seeking to go after his political opponents is part of his appeal to his supporters. They will not care.

2) The case rests upon Trump asking Ukraine to look into interference by Joe Biden, and there's clear video evidence of Biden doing exactly what Trump is accused of, leveraging US financial support to fire a political opponent of his son's firm, who got paid $3 Mil over 2 years to act on a board he had no training or expertise in the field of...

That looks like political suicide to me. Unless the Democrats are also willing to cannibalize Joe Biden, and there's a snowball's chance in hell they would do that... then Trump gets to campaign on how corrupt the Democrats are, putting their kids in positions of power for financial gain... I know Trump does the same, but he could say his kids don't take a government salary or whatever.

It just seems like, overall, it's highly likely to be a win for Trump. I hate to say it, I think he wanted it to happen. Teflon Don made a brilliant play here, daring them to impeach... I think he saw the polls of him losing to the Dems bigly, and he took a big risk, but he knew what he wanted. He wanted to focus on the Dems corruption and hypocrisy. Now he's given a runway of a year to do exactly that right up to the election.

I hope I'm wrong.

You may be right, but I could also see independents getting on board with impeachment more than they did with Mueller and Trump’s support slipping a little (or a lot). He has to thread a tight needle to get re-elected, so even if this only hurts at the margins, that’s a big, big loss for him. Fatal in fact.
I do think it’s a very risky play by the Democrats and one I don’t think they needed to do. If this turns out to be nothing or becomes an issue that doesn’t resonate, it will embolden Trump and make him tougher to beat.
Whatever happens, I do think this is the play that ultimately decides the game. We’ll see I guess.

[DMT]

The guy admitted to committing impeachable offenses but it's a good play? Wow

[Teenwolf]

The guy admitted to committing impeachable offenses but it's a good play? Wow

"My offenses aren't impeachable, they're impeccable!"

[DMT]

"My offenses aren't impeachable, they're impeccable!"

That would've been better than "perfect".

[Sour Masher]

The Ukraine call transcript is quite damning. Trump spent the whole call focused on what he could get for himself from Ukraine, both in trying to discredit the Mueller report and in repeatedly asking the Ukrainian president to do a favor for him and work with Rudy Guiliani and Bill Barr to investigate Biden. The only foreign-policy-related aspects of the call were to talk badly about our allies in Germany and France, to insult the former Ukranian ambassador, and to discuss making arrangements for a future meeting in person.

The transcript itself is impeachment worthy. If Trump thought that would exonerate him, I wonder what the whistleblower complaint that his administration is unlawfully withholding will show. Maybe it's just more of the same, as Trump's advisors reportedly did not want him to release the transcript.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ranscript.html

I just saw Jackie Speier say that while she can't get into details, she was blown away by the Whishblower complaint. She said it was way more involved and worse than what has already been revealed by the damning transcript. That might explain why Trump so eagerly released the transcript, as a way to control and spin before the bigger revelations get revealed. To me, even if nothing else is revealed, what we already have Trump admitting to is damning enough. It is dumbfounding to me he would do this right after the Mueller investigation.

ETA: The complaint is being called both very credible and deeply disturbing by Rep Adam Schiff, chair of the House Intelligence Committee. That this complaint was withheld for as long as it was is also deeply concerning. Even republicans like Ben Sasse are saying there are "really troubling things in the report."

[mjl]

Revo, you're all about polling. Tell me, have you heard what bipartisan support for impeaching Trump was at within the last month?

https://today.yougov.com/opi/surveys/results#/survey/72f3bf66-dee3-11e9-b4a9-9f0e9e31e4a3/question/9b91b2b7-dee3-11e9-ba0e-c7fcd6994022/politics

2805 US adults were questioned on Sep 24, 2019.
Results are weighted to be representative of the US population.

1. If President Donald Trump suspended military aid to Ukraine in order to incentivize the country’s officials to investigate his political rival, Joe Biden, and his son, would you support or oppose impeachment?

results: 44% strongly support, 11% somewhat support, 6% somewhat oppose, 20% strongly oppose, 19% don't know.

55-26 is... a lot.

[Ken]

https://today.yougov.com/opi/surveys...94022/politics



results: 44% strongly support, 11% somewhat support, 6% somewhat oppose, 20% strongly oppose, 19% don't know.

55-26 is... a lot.

Coincidentally 26% of Americans also think the Sun revolves around the Earth. https://time.com/7809/1-in-4-america...-orbits-earth/

....
....

OK, fine, maybe it's not that big of a coincidence after all

[Sour Masher]

Coincidentally 26% of Americans also think the Sun revolves around the Earth. https://time.com/7809/1-in-4-america...-orbits-earth/

....
....

OK, fine, maybe it's not that big of a coincidence after all

I would very much like to see the venn diagram of overlap on those two groups .

[frae]

This whistle blower complaint is not good for the President. There are names in there of people who will know the answers to a lot of things and I have feeling they are going to be seeing the inside of a congressional hearing pretty soon. The actual hidden (on a server that is more secure) transcript could be pretty damning. They can't claim that it actually holds any national security interests based on the note taken version they released yesterday or they will have to admit that version is total bunk. Get your popcorn this one is going to be fun.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/read-full-text-whistleblower-complaint-n1058971

[Ken]

I would very much like to see the venn diagram of overlap on those two groups .

Have you ever seen a circle? Imagine just one of them.

[Sour Masher]

Have you ever seen a circle? Imagine just one of them.

[nullnor]

Coincidentally 26% of Americans also think the Sun revolves around the Earth. https://time.com/7809/1-in-4-america...-orbits-earth/

that's like 100's of years old Copernicus stuff. i think saying the earth is flat and we live in a dome would resonate better. ..oh wait i think everyone once thought the earth was flat and that's how America was discovered.

hmm... i think it would be neat to live in a dome though. actually that wouldn't work because some day we will live in a Dyson sphere which would make everyone eventually right. except for the flat part.