President Donald Trump

[revo]

There’s a difference between criticizing Trump’s many flaws and actively rooting for bad things to happen to the country/economy/stock market so you can crow about how bad his policies are. IMO, a couple of folks in here wouldn’t shed many tears (based on their postings) if the economy tanked, inflation and unemployment rose as long as they could post about it. Just my opinion........however, I think that’s pathetic.

Just like it was pathetic when you said that even though the vast majority of America will get hit by Trump's tariffs to the estimated tune of $1,000, that was A-OK because you personally got a tax refund of $1,800.

[Sour Masher]

1. you were doing so well until you got around to making a diagnosis (wtf)

2. I think Trump's blunders are pretty well documented here already

3. when people decide to wallow in mud, the pig likes it. that is, making accurate observations - even over 'little things' like Meghan Markle - is not something we should just throw out the window because of Trump. yet some in the world are doing just that, and it's a shame. I'm not speaking up for Trump; I'm speaking up for standards of accuracy.

I agree, inaccuracies are always a problem and it is a service to point them out. I believe team Trump, and news outlets like Fox, also spins things, but I dont see the same folks pointing out those things. Maybe, probably, that is simply a by product of the media folks here choose to engage.

I'm with you that I wish all reporting was unbiased. I have learned things from you and other posters here have pointed out that hasnt not been reported fully by some left leaning sources. In many cases, though, it seems many of us agree on the larger sentiments, but seem to still argue the finer details, and most of the time that is focused on trying to soften the critique of Trump. Again, that may be about what media we all engage and also the demographic of posters here. Maybe if most of us were far right, you and other moderates would be focused on how right of center media often under sells and minimizes Trumps issues.

[nots]

Just like it was pathetic when you said that even though the vast majority of America will get hit by Trump's tariffs to the estimated tune of $1,000, that was A-OK because you personally got a tax refund of $1,800.

It is not the thought I was trying to convey. I was pointing out how Pelosi said our refunds (avg .$1900) were crumbs but you are hysterical about how much the tariff is going to cost the average family ($1000). $1900= crumbs, $1000= crushing
PS- i believe we paid $1600 or so less than last year, but I need to verify that.
Edit:Upon rereading, I did use the pronoun ‘my’, so I guess I see where you are coming from though I was speaking collectively (and probably too informally). Poor writing -for - comprehension skills by me.

[revo]

Actually, that’s not what I said, nor is it the thought I was trying to convey. I was pointing out how Pelosi said our refunds (avg .$1900) were crumbs but you are hysterical about how much the tariff is going to cost the average family ($1000). $1900= crumbs, $1000= crushing
PS- i believe we paid $1600 or so less than last year, but I need to verify that.

Well, apologies for misconstruing what you were trying to say, but Pelosi actually said it was one-time "$1,000 bonuses" that were "crumbs" compared to what corporation were going to make off the tax cuts, not annual $1,900 tax refunds.

So the GOP was crowing about these bonuses and scolded Pelosi repeatedly, but now that these same people will give that right back with tariffs, they're now being asked to take one for the team and be a "great patriot."

[Judge Jude]

"Maybe if most of us were far right, you and other moderates would be focused on how right of center media often under sells and minimizes Trumps issues."

exactly.

[nots]

Well, apologies for misconstruing what you were trying to say, but Pelosi actually said it was one-time "$1,000 bonuses" that were "crumbs" compared to what corporation were going to make off the tax cuts, not annual $1,900 tax refunds.

So the GOP was crowing about these bonuses and scolded Pelosi repeatedly, but now that these same people will give that right back with tariffs, they're now being asked to take one for the team and be a "great patriot."

I can’t speak for the GOP. As for me, I think the tariffs are a risky play. If we can get the 200B losses in intellectual property under control, it would be a home run. If it continues to crater the markets, it will result in an overwhelming defeat of Trump and scores of Republican Congress folks.
China doesn’t abide by the trade agreements we have with them, that is well documented. We have gotten in too deep a deficit of trade with them and have become addicted to cheap Chinese goods. It has hammered our manufacturing community. Mistakes with our policy with them go back at least 5 administrations. I think something needs to be done. Given the relative strength of our economy, I guess this is the time for something bold, however, I think this rapid escalation is a huge mistake. If I am right, Trump will pay the price. For the sake of everyone involved, I hope I am wrong, even if it means him babbling on about how great a negotiator he is ad infinitum.

[onejayhawk]

You won’t find me disagreeing on this. Im a Never Trumper and a Never Fox’r. I was a CNN addict but they’ve cured me. And, MSNBC is equally as unwatchable as FOX.

I cut the cable years ago, so I see none of them.

Why leave out the third possibility:

- Trump, after being informed by a terrified adviser that the McCain will be in the area, exclaims "you better make sure that ship is out of sight or you'll be joining the Mooch and that knucklehead Tillerson!"

That's falls under option #1, too much trouble.

Actually, isn't it the opposite -- Trump makes countless spur of the moment decisions without informing his staffers. Hence the many instances where we read that "staffers were caught off-guard by his comments/tweet...."

In what instances did staffers make important decisions without his knowledge that was leaked to the press?

This one I give you. That said, some things but not all things. He has shown the ability to keep things under wraps when it suits him.

Just like it was pathetic when you said that even though the vast majority of America will get hit by Trump's tariffs to the estimated tune of $1,000, that was A-OK because you personally got a tax refund of $1,800.

Unsportsmanlike conduct, 15 yards and first down.

"Maybe if most of us were far right, you and other moderates would be focused on how right of center media often under sells and minimizes Trumps issues."

exactly.

Ed used to be rational. There is no doubt Trump makes all this vitriol work for him.

J

[Bernie Brewer]

I’m out of this conversation. I have to go get help for my OCD! Maybe some of you without OCD need something for your TDS though. Just ridiculous. To use SM’s clinical approach, just because you think you don’t have it, trust me, you definitely do!

[Sour Masher]

I’m out of this conversation. I have to go get help for my OCD! Maybe some of you without OCD need something for your TDS though. Just ridiculous. To use SM’s clinical approach, just because you think you don’t have it, trust me, you definitely do!

Oh, I know you think I and others have it. You have made that clear before. I think folks who seem hell bent on trying to normalize Trump and feel compelled to point out every instance when Democratic politicians or pundits or posters might be a little biased or hyperbolic have a strange syndrome too. Non-Trump voters frequently doing this reminds me of baldgriff being compelled to always champion absolute gun rights while not even being a gun owner himself. I don't get it. If you want to give me a real shock, once in awhile show smugness or even outrage at how right wing media and politicians and posters ignore, minimizes, and spin Trump's egregious behavior. There is an awful lot if that you could point out too.

Also, since you are find of pointing out that both sides do everything, I can't help but point out that yours and others continued use of TDS is really hypocritical given how ridiculous you found being labeled OCD. You get to say Dems have TDS, a clinical syndrome, for years, but I'm ridiculous for mentioning OCD for the frequent and one sided need for corrections and push backs against left wing hyperbole regarding Trump.

If this were really just about unbiased devotion to accuracy, which I can respect, even with the left-leaning audience here, why not also point out the many, many instances of understatement and spin you see on the right? When every correction and push back is against Trump critics from self-proclaimed never-Trumpers,, it seems odd. When Trump critics are labeled as having a syndrome, but Trump defenders are never labeled in such a way, it also seems odd to me. But I guess that is just a symptom of my TDS.

As I already said, maybe I am just not seeing the other side and some if you DO notice that Republicans wrongly try to normalize Trump and miniize his antics and point that out to Forever-Trumpers somewhere else in your lives. If that is the case, I am grateful you do that. It would be nice to see it here once in awhile.

[Bernie Brewer]

Oh, I know you think I and others have it. You have made that clear before. I think folks who seem hell bent on trying to normalize Trump and feel compelled to point out every instance when Democratic politicians or pundits or posters might be a little biased or hyperbolic have a strange syndrome too. Non-Trump voters frequently doing this reminds me of baldgriff being compelled to always champion absolute gun rights while not even being a gun owner himself. I don't get it. If you want to give me a real shock, once in awhile show smugness or even outrage at how right wing media and politicians and posters ignore, minimizes, and spin Trump's egregious behavior. There is an awful lot if that you could point out too.

Sorry Pal, but I’m not the droid you’re looking for. I’m not normalizing Trump. He is a shit bag person and isn’t fit for office. But, I think I’ve said that more than once before on this Board, which is big news considering I’m a Trump apologist and all. I also wrote how pissed I was at his Helsinki performance but you missed that apparently. But, nevertheless, because I don’t constantly add a voice by yelling at the wind or railing against the stupid Trump news du jour, I guess I’m normalizing! Got it. You do understand that by not pointing out the daily hypocrisy and dishonestly of the Democrats, you’re normalizing their behavior, right? Let he without sin cast the stone.

Any way, there are way more than enough voices on this Board calling out the behavior of Trump, and his acolytes, sometimes very appropriately, but sadly other times ridiculously over the top to the point of almost doing so comedically. And, those voices habitually lump all things GOP, and non lefty into the mix for good measure or is it just for snicks and giggles. Do you really need one more voice (apparently mine) doing the exact same thing? Welcome to the echo chamber!

As for me commenting, I usually only comment when I feel someone needs to call bullshit on some exaggeration, twisting of fact, or some other form of complete partisan hackery. I don’t feel the need to comment when “my team” (not sure what that even means) fouls, because, I have complete faith in your team to do their resistance thingy and push back on their own. I push back against the concerted effort to trivialize and minimize the resistance team’s conduct (although not equally, at least not yet, but it’s getting closer and closer) and, it’s shitty behavior. And, whether you can see it through your blue colored lens, it sure as shit exists. When will I see you call out Pelosi or Schumer for their constant lies, stretching of the truth, spinning of the story, pandering to their base, or their playing the game on or over the edges? When will I see you take on another poster from your team that is just personally attacking someone from “my team?” Cuz, I’m not seeing any of that from you either.

In regards to your TDS/OCD screed, have you been reading this thread for more than a day? It is more frequent than not that when one of the posters from “my side” (still not really sure what that means) posts a rebuttal response to one of the many over the top nonsensical reactionary posts to all things Trump, GOP, Tariff, SCOTUS, Mueller, etc., it takes less than a couple of posts, sadly many times the very next post, for the responder to be called some shitty name, labeled as some defender of some shitty people, and/or they be admonished because they should be ashamed or repulsed (or what the ever else is lobbed at them from the lefties) for their out of sync in their posting, thinking, or expression of opinions.

I don’t agree with a two thirds (maybe more) of what One Jayhawk writes, but some of your guys treat him like absolute shit. And, yet, somehow he still has the courage to write. Is he trolling or does he believe what he writes? Only he really knows, but I read him because he too can offer a perspective that may help in my struggle to understand the world. As preposterous and exasperating as some of you find him, these are not indifferent from the feeling I get reading some of the posts from your team. 1J doesn’t succumb to the name calling, and rarely responds in kind; that’s good on him. He’s a far better person than me. Maybe, strangely, he’s the adult in this room!

You brought up BG and his steadfast support of gun ownership rights. Geez, I don’t agree with everything he writes either, but many of you aren’t even trying to understand his perspective, but invariably he gets treated like shit for having or offering a contrarian view. I had an boss, a long long time ago (in a galaxy so far away) tell me that if everyone in the room is thinking the same way, then someone’s not thinking. I happen to agree. Let the contrarians have their say, even if their as crazy as bat shit.

But, I suppose all of that is OK, your team can treat people shitty, because ya all got right on your side. You own the moral high ground on every freaking issue. The rest of us are just on the wrong side of history, completely out of touch with the “mainstream” (as your team defines it) and, well, just plain out of touch with reality!

By the way, I know “conventional wisdom” now says Russia got Trump elected, and that it had nothing to do with him running against an epically shitty opponent, or a deep seeded dissatisfaction against the prior administration. Nope, it was because large swaths of the country are stupid, poorly educated, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, Fox News watching, mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, low information voters, who are deplorable, and/or lacking of any moral compass or suffer from a failure to hold themselves to the Christian values which they profess and use to hold all others to account. I guess they saw themselves in Trump!

Of course, those are my words, but they’re an amalgam of the things the left likes to say, while not being able to admit to their own failings or their inability or unwillingness to understand or even try to listen to countering views. Those are the things that pissed off middle America enough to support a despicable douche like Trump, and will likely cause his reelection, unless some thought leader on the left figures shit out.

On a more personal note, you’ve made it clear that I offer nothing of value to you and you’ve done so innumerable times. Yet suddenly, magically, it would be of some value to you if I would only participate in the echo chamber that is this thread and started calling out my team for their hypocrisy and bad behavior. Shit, I’ve been waiting for you to do the same. I’ll stop now and watch for you to lead the way.

Sorry. This really isn’t meant to be a personal attack, I just don’t know how else to respond. And, I one upped you on the thesis length response.

[Sour Masher]

Bernie, it seems clear you see the left through a negative lens and feel compelled to focus your ire on pointing out they are as bad and/or worse than the right. It is clear it frustrates you that the rise of Trump has emboldened so many voices to denounce him, sometimes for things they have overlooked from players on their own team. I get that. And I get that you don't feel the need to call out the right when many here already do that. I understand all of that. What I don't understand is how you and others don't see how Trump is a bridge too far to continue to play the same games left and right always play. If we were talking about Bush or Reagan or anyone else, it would be different to me.

But when I see smart folks like you continually go, "sure, Trump is horrible, yep, I agree with that, but lets move quickly past discussing how and why to discussing something more important to me, something I feel I must continually address nearly every time Trump does or says something horrible, and that is, guess, what, this ain't new, where were you critics when Obama did X or Clinton did y? And also, check out how this one loony lefter overstated his case and lost credibility, or how everyone on the left are a bunch of elitist hypocrites who believe Russia elected Trump," it just makes me feel you just don't get how Trump is different, and how these other issues, while important and often noteworthy on their own, pale in comparison to the central issue that I think we so often distract ourselves with here, and that is Trump is not who this country should be, and he is not who the GOP should be.

And to clarify, I never said you offer nothing of value. I guess I failed at trying to say before is that your rhetorical tactic of conceding a point on Trump but quickly moving on to whataboutery has never changed my mind on anything. It was not meant to minimize you or your voice. It was just an honest statement about that style of argument being completely unconvincing to me. In contrast, Chancellor, who i disagreed with 100X more than you (I think you and I actually agree on many things), did change my views on a couple of things, because instead of focusing on historical precedents that highlight how since people years ago did X, we have no place to criticize Y now, he'd present facts and data that showed something I believed might be wrong (he actually did a lot of the former too, but it is the latter that I felt was compelling). I seem to still not be able to make my point about that specific tactic of yours without offending you. I don't mean to. But to me, relying on tradition and precedent as a way to deflect valid criticism of Trump is a logical fallacy. It will never be convincing to me to tell me I have no place to be critical of Trump or anyone else, simply because he is not the first to do a bad thing, and his predecessors did not get the same level of criticism for it. That specific tactic is what I was referring to.

[Sour Masher]

Oh, and as far as 1jay goes, I don't think I've ever gone so far as to treat him like shit. Same with baldgriff. Some have, I agree, but I can understand why--unlike Chance who was a proud Trump supporter, 1jay hardly ever backs up his claims with evidence. It is clear he is a smart guy, yet he chooses to make sometimes outrageous claims as if they are self-evident and ignores calls for actual evidence, which is frustrating and has led to unkind responses to him. That is why some believe he enjoys making lefties here go bananas. I don't know if he'd admit it, but I suspect he does enjoy getting lefties to go off kilter/ lose their tempers, which is the definition of trollish behavior. it is a shame, because with Chance gone, 1jay would be a great asset to the conversations if he'd bring the facts like Chance did more often.

[Bernie Brewer]

Oh, and as far as 1jay goes, I don't think I've ever gone so far as to treat him like shit. Same with baldgriff. Some have, I agree, but I can understand why--unlike Chance who was a proud Trump supporter, 1jay hardly ever backs up his claims with evidence. It is clear he is a smart guy, yet he chooses to make sometimes outrageous claims as if they are self-evident and ignores calls for actual evidence, which is frustrating and has led to unkind responses to him. That is why some believe he enjoys making lefties here go bananas. I don't know if he'd admit it, but I suspect he does enjoy getting lefties to go off kilter/ lose their tempers, which is the definition of trollish behavior. it is a shame, because with Chance gone, 1jay would be a great asset to the conversations if he'd bring the facts like Chance did more often.

And, have you called out anyone for treating another poster like shit, ever? I’ll be in the look out for that.

What about calling out your side for hyperbolic and hypocritical posting or outright dishonesty, whether it’s fellow posters or elected politicians? I’ll also be on the look out for that.

As for Chance why isn’t he here anymore, I hope it’s not a health related issue, but he and I discussed often his frustration with the extremism calling out the extremism without noticing the plank in their own eyes.

[Sour Masher]

And, have you called out anyone for treating another poster like shit, ever? I’ll be in the look out for that.

What about calling out your side for hyperbolic and hypocritical posting or outright dishonesty, whether it’s fellow posters or elected politicians? I’ll also be on the look out for that.

As for Chance why isn’t he here anymore, I hope it’s not a health related issue, but he and I discussed often his frustration with the extremism calling out the extremism without noticing the plank in their own eyes.

I have indeed defended people from unfair attacks, both in the forums and in pms. But once again you are entirely focused on your perception for the need for balance and we are getting derailed from the issues that matter most, which is Trump. But keep on fighting the good fight of defending Trump from hyperbolic attacks and calling out the hypocrisy of anyone criticizing Trump. As I he said, it is a strange stance to continually take from someone who agrees Trump is a horrible president.

Trump is bad, but us evil, mean, hypocritical lefties are worse. Got it.

[Bernie Brewer]

I have indeed defended people from unfair attacks, both in the forums and in pms. But once again you are entirely focused on your perception for the need for balance and we are getting derailed from the issues that matter most, which is Trump. But keep on fighting the good fight of defending Trump from hyperbolic attacks and calling out the hypocrisy of anyone criticizing Trump. As I he said, it is a strange stance to continually take from someone who agrees Trump is a horrible president.

Trump is bad, but us evil, mean, hypocritical lefties are worse. Got it.

I guess that pretty much sums it up then.