President Donald Trump

[revo]

Who says the NK talks failed? It seems like Trump got what he wanted.

LEI is even, COI is up 0.1, LAG is up 0.4. It does not look like a recession any time soon.

https://www.conference-board.org/pdf_free/economics/2019_02_28.pdf

J

He got denuclearization? Wow, Bizarro J World News must be in overdrive! In other real news, North Korea has quickly started to rebuild the nuclear reactor they dismantled. I guess on Bizarro J World he wanted that?

[B-Fly]

The Jared/Ivanka security clearance stuff is such blatant nepotism and probably constitutes abuse of power.

[Bernie Brewer]

The Jared/Ivanka security clearance stuff is such blatant nepotism and probably constitutes abuse of power.

I'm not necessarily in disagreement, but why is this different than when Hillary had clearance in the Clinton Admin. I'm sure I'll be accused of whataboutery by some, but nevertheless, the questions stands. In full blown whataboutery, Hillary had no experience when she was advising Bill. But, to me, it made sense since she was so active in the Administration.

She is an unpaid advisor that has been in the same role with her Father for years in the private sector. Granted it is unusual, but its the President's decision who gets clearances. Here's a timely article from CNN:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/06/politics/ivanka-trump-security-clearance-white-house/index.html

[revo]

I'm not necessarily in disagreement, but why is this different than when Hillary had clearance in the Clinton Admin. I'm sure I'll be accused of whataboutery by some, but nevertheless, the questions stands. In full blown whataboutery, Hillary had no experience when she was advising Bill. But, to me, it made sense since she was so active in the Administration.

She is an unpaid advisor that has been in the same role with her Father for years in the private sector. Granted it is unusual, but its the President's decision who gets clearances. Here's a timely article from CNN:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/06/polit...use/index.html

I think you're missing his point a bit.

Personally, I don't have an issue with either getting security clearance since they were tasked with doing high-level work, if they cleared the necessary checks. However, our intelligence agencies denied them both clearance due to issues in their background -- Kushner had concerns from the FBI & CIA, and Ivanka presumably was coupled in with that. Both McGahn and Kelly were in agreement that neither should receive security clearance. But Trump went over their heads and against our intelligence (again) because of nepotism, and yes, I agree with B-Fly that it was an abuse of power. And then he publicly lied about interfering, another abuse of power, and it's possible Ivanka lied about it as well (although she could have been unaware).

Was Hillary initially rejected for a security clearance? I'm not aware of that.

[Bernie Brewer]

I think you're missing his point a bit.

Personally, I don't have an issue with either getting security clearance since they were tasked with doing high-level work, if they cleared the necessary checks. However, our intelligence agencies denied them both clearance due to issues in their background -- Kushner had concerns from the FBI & CIA, and Ivanka presumably was coupled in with that. Both McGahn and Kelly were in agreement that neither should receive security clearance. But Trump went over their heads and against our intelligence (again) because of nepotism, and yes, I agree with B-Fly that it was an abuse of power. And then he publicly lied about interfering, another abuse of power, and it's possible Ivanka lied about it as well (although she could have been unaware).

Was Hillary initially rejected for a security clearance? I'm not aware of that.

Don’t know the answer on Hillary. But if Trump has the authority to grant this how is it an abuse of power. I get the optics of it, I agree that the whole Trump cadre is not whom I want with top secret clearances but it was/is within his authority to grant this.

[gcstomp]

This is not even in top 20 unprecedented immoral and stupid acts by trump that alone would have ended a presidency before this age of madness.

Trump installed close family to posts who had no relevant experience at all, posts that required certain level of security clearance. The senior officials in charge of issuing clearances felt strongly enough that there was such compromising background on Jared and Ivanka that clearances were denied on multiple levels of review. trump ordered the clearances, as far as anyone can tell a first for any president to over ride in such a manner, and a move not only objected by senior officials, but Trump pressured then-chief of staff John Kelly and White House counsel Don McGahn to grant the clearances so that it wouldn't look like the president was inappropriately influencing the process, several sources told CNN. Both McGahn and Kelly refused, and Trump ultimately granted the security clearances himself, the sources said.

President and Ivanka denied any influence from trump in granting this clearance, so yet again, another in your face lie.

The act is one thing, the cover up is another.

[DMT]

Don’t know the answer on Hillary. But if Trump has the authority to grant this how is it an abuse of power. I get the optics of it, I agree that the whole Trump cadre is not whom I want with top secret clearances but it was/is within his authority to grant this.

How is it an abuse of power to override our intelligence agencies to grant clearances to family members? Are you kidding or trolling?

[Sour Masher]

How is it an abuse of power to override our intelligence agencies to grant clearances to family members? Are you kidding or trolling?

I'm confused too. I thought the distinction between the terms "abuses of power" and "illegal acts of authority" are that it is implicit with the former that the power in question has the authority to do something, but the particular implementation of that authority is an abuse of that power. But I suspect the issue here is merely semantic disagreement. I suspect Bernie's use of that term means Trump is not acting illegally, even if his actions are immoral, unprecedented, and inappropriate.

I should add that I too see a big difference between nepotism for people the intelligence community vets as ok and nepotism despite the intelligence community flagging those people as folks who should not be granted clearance. I'm surprised there is disagreement about that difference.

[onejayhawk]

He got denuclearization? Wow, Bizarro J World News must be in overdrive! In other real news, North Korea has quickly started to rebuild the nuclear reactor they dismantled. I guess on Bizarro J World he wanted that?

I said he got what he wanted. You are the one saying he got denuclearization.

J

[revo]

I said he got what he wanted. You are the one saying he got denuclearization.

J

Conversing with you is like chatting with The Riddler. Lessee......his main goal was denuclearization, but now they're doing almost the opposite of it. But on Bizarro J World, he got what he wanted. What could that be? Hmmmm.....

- He can finally say he went to Vietnam?
- He put a dictator on equal footing?
- Selling his commemorative coin for a healthy profit?
- Selling out the South Koreans by ending the joint exercises, thus giving Kim what he wanted for free?
- He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize after begging Japan?

[revo]

Bill Shine, the former head of Fox News who became Dumpy's 6th Communications Director, was "reassigned" to his election committee.

[onejayhawk]

Conversing with you is like chatting with The Riddler. Lessee......his main goal was denuclearization, but now they're doing almost the opposite of it. But on Bizarro J World, he got what he wanted. What could that be? Hmmmm.....

- He can finally say he went to Vietnam?
- He put a dictator on equal footing?
- Selling his commemorative coin for a healthy profit?
- Selling out the South Koreans by ending the joint exercises, thus giving Kim what he wanted for free?
- He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize after begging Japan?

He should be nominated for the Peace Prize. He should probably win it.

I never said he got all his objectives. I said he got what he wanted from this particular meeting.

Your trolling is getting odious. I understand you hate Trump but a little civility in the forum is expected.

J

[Fresno Bob]

He should be nominated for the Peace Prize. He should probably win it.

I never said he got all his objectives. I said he got what he wanted from this particular meeting.

Your trolling is getting odious. I understand you hate Trump but a little civility in the forum is expected.

J

I'd prefer rationality

[swampdragon]

He should be nominated for the Peace Prize. He should probably win it.

I never said he got all his objectives. I said he got what he wanted from this particular meeting.

Your trolling is getting odious. I understand you hate Trump but a little civility in the forum is expected.

J

What did he get?

[onejayhawk]

What did he get?

Hard to say but China is the obvious target since the NK negotiations are not occurring in a vacuum. Telling China that he is not going to offer huge concessions for token progress is important. For comparison, consider the disastous Iran deal. Obama/Kerry shipped to Iran enough money, in cash, to build the wall.

J