President Donald Trump

[revo]

I wasn't in the SB much back then. That is certainly damning of someone who constantly calls out what he perceives as inconsistency from those critical of Trump on issues they were silent on with Obama. I guess it is no big deal that Trump, despite being in office during better economic circumstances, is growing the debt faster than Ohama did while dealing with a recession.

Yep. He claims he’s evolved on the issue, lol.

[onejayhawk]

I wasn't in the SB much back then. That is certainly damning of someone who constantly calls out what he perceives as inconsistency from those critical of Trump on issues they were silent on with Obama. I guess it is no big deal that Trump, despite being in office during better economic circumstances, is growing the debt faster than Ohama did while dealing with a recession.

No he isn't. Not close. This is not even in level money and I am giving 2009 to Bush. It did not start to drop until Obama lost control of Congress.

2018 - $833 billion budget deficit (projected)
2017 - $665 billion budget deficit
2016 - $585 billion budget deficit
2015 - $439 billion budget deficit
2014 - $514 billion budget deficit
2013 - $719 billion budget deficit
2012 - $1.1 trillion budget deficit
2011 - $1.3 trillion budget deficit
2010 - $1.3 trillion budget deficit

J

[Sour Masher]

No he isn't. Not close. This is not even in level money and I am giving 2009 to Bush. It did not start to drop until Obama lost control of Congress.

2018 - $833 billion budget deficit (projected)
2017 - $665 billion budget deficit
2016 - $585 billion budget deficit
2015 - $439 billion budget deficit
2014 - $514 billion budget deficit
2013 - $719 billion budget deficit
2012 - $1.1 trillion budget deficit
2011 - $1.3 trillion budget deficit
2010 - $1.3 trillion budget deficit

J

Obama dealt with the effects of the recession longer than the year's you highlight. In total, he added $8.588 trillion to the deficit. That was a 74% increase. Very bad, but not as bad as Bush. Trump is on pace to add $4.775 trillion in his first term, in much more favorable economic times. Your own numbers show a big jump from the end of Obama's presidency, when the economy was finally getting better and the start of Trump's. He is on pace to match or surpass Obama, if he manages a second term, and during a time period of economic if prosperity that should be coinciding with debt reduction.

Why, given the numbers, was nots critical of Obama for the debt, but not of Trump? You have repeatedly said the economy y is doing great. Isn't this precisely the time our budget deficit should be going down? Why don't Republicans even pretend to care about this anymore, when they all made a super big deal about it under Obama?

[nots]

I wasn't in the SB much back then. That is certainly damning of someone who constantly calls out what he perceives as inconsistency from those critical of Trump on issues they were silent on with Obama. I guess it is no big deal that Trump, despite being in office during better economic circumstances, is growing the debt faster than Ohama did while dealing with a recession.

Instead of talking to someone else about what I believe, you could ask me about it, especially since ‘you weren’t here much back then’.

[nots]

Umm, what? By media bias, we mean they are doing things like investigating him harder than any president in recent memory — not just making shit up out of thin air, like the clown in office.

You’ve become quite the troll. Rmember when you were incredibly angry about things like the deficit? You even wanted people in Obama’s administration locked up over it! And now, as it grows more and more every day, nary a peep from you about it. I wonder why that is.

Actually been trolling on this board about the debt and deficit since Bush implemented Medicare Part D. Was supposed to be revenue neutral and has cost something like $2T. Kept it up thru most of the Obama era. Still believe that it’s a huge problem but one that neither party actually wants to solve. They’ll be a day of reckoning on this issue at some point. I have accepted that.

[Sour Masher]

Instead of talking to someone else about what I believe, you could ask me about it, especially since ‘you weren’t here much back then’.

Did you used to criticize Obama for the debt? Why don't you do that with Trump?

[Sour Masher]

Actually been trolling on this board about the debt and deficit since Bush implemented Medicare Part D. Was supposed to be revenue neutral and has cost something like $2T. Kept it up thru most of the Obama era. Still believe that it’s a huge problem but one that neither party actually wants to solve. They’ll be a day of reckoning on this issue at some point. I have accepted that.

If that is okay for you to do, why do you get so annoyed, and imply people are hypocritical when you see them voice concerns about Trump that you didn't see them voice about Obama? That seems to be a major issue of consternation with you in relation to both media coverage of Trump and how people on this forum talk about Trump.

ETA: I for one think it okay if people's positions evolve, and it is also okay to acknowledge that every situation is different, so it unfair to call someone out for inconsistency without knowing the reasoning behind the perceived inconsistency. But if my memory is accurate, inconsistency of current Trump critics with previous silence or acceptance related to behavior by Obama and past Dems is an issue you have little tolerance for.

[nots]

Did you used to criticize Obama for the debt? Why don't you do that with Trump?

I did with Obama (Bush too). I have with Trump (probably within the last 72 hours in one of these threads I criticized the $200B increase in military spending, which accounts for somewhere near or above 20% of the deficit this year). We spend too much money, regardless of President or who controls Congress.

[nots]

If that is okay for you to do, why do you get so annoyed, and imply people are hypocritical when you see them voice concerns about Trump that you didn't see them voice about Obama? That seems to be a major issue of consternation with you in relation to both media coverage of Trump and how people on this forum talk about Trump.

ETA: I for one think it okay if people's positions evolve, and it is also okay to acknowledge that every situation is different, so it unfair to call someone out for inconsistency without knowing the reasoning behind the perceived inconsistency. But if my memory is accurate, inconsistency of current Trump critics with previous silence or acceptance related to behavior by Obama and past Dems is an issue you have little tolerance for.

I don’t get annoyed pointing out hypocrisy, I get annoyed when people mischaracterize my beliefs, even after they are corrected, or try to marry me to every belief a Libertarian has and then self-righteously lambast me for those made up views.
I try to be consistent in my views and I enjoy when others are too, even if those views don’t fit my narrative.

[Sour Masher]

I did with Obama (Bush too). I have with Trump (probably within the last 72 hours in one of these threads)I criticized the $200B increase in military spending, which accounts for somewhere near or above 20% of the deficit this year. We spend too much money, regardless of President or who controls Congress.

I brought up the debt recently in another thread and BG said it never changes--no one cares, so it isn't really noteworthy now. But it did seem to be noteworthy under Obama.

[nots]

I brought up the debt recently in another thread and BG said it never changes--no one cares, so it isn't really noteworthy now. But it did seem to be noteworthy under Obama.

I can’t speak for BG, but I think the criticism of the deficits is at least as loud as it was under Obama (in part due to the increase as a %of GDP). I would disagree some with BG and say that no one truly cares but both sides are willing to use it as a tool to criticize the other team’s guy. YMMV.
Edit: I would say my criticism of the debt probably peaked during those 1T+ years and has grown more muted during the end of the Obama years and now the Trump years, even if I still feel it’s too much.

[baldgriff]

I brought up the debt recently in another thread and BG said it never changes--no one cares, so it isn't really noteworthy now. But it did seem to be noteworthy under Obama.

And here we go again with misstating my actual stance. I have stated before that our government has to stop running on deficit spending. I didnt say no one cares - I said that NEITHER party is willing to touch it.



1/23/2017

There have been many of us that have been saying that our deficit spending has to stop. The reply is almost always framed up as a choice between "the broken and down trodden vs. the military".

10/18/2018

Honestly - there need to be cuts to social programs and military spending and we need to quit having the government provide funding on stupid shit. If we dont find a way to start minimizing the deficit spending and actually start paying down the debt - we will be in more trouble than we already are.

Sorry - I cant find the quote where I say that Neither party is willing to touch the defecit spending. I have been very consistent that the deficit spending has to stop and the spending cuts need to be across the board in areas that both the left and the right will not like.

[Sour Masher]

I can’t speak for BG, but I think the criticism of the deficits is at least as loud as it was under Obama (in part due to the increase as a %of GDP). I would disagree some with BG and say that no one truly cares but both sides are willing to use it as a tool to criticize the other team’s guy. YMMV.
Edit: I would say my criticism of the debt probably peaked during those 1T+ years and has grown more muted during the end of the Obama years and now the Trump years, even if I still feel it’s too much.

I agree that we are carrying too much debt. For me, when we top 100% of GDP, that is noteworthy and we should work to get it under that number.

[Fresno Bob]

i think the time to go into debt as a government is in a time of recession, and the time to pay down that debt is when the economy is good

[Sour Masher]

i think the time to go into debt as a government is in a time of recession, and the time to pay down that debt is when the economy is good

I agree.