President Donald Trump

[nots]

I am all in favor of permanently doing away with the SOTU dog and pony show. No matter who is giving the speech, half the room jumps up and down like marionettes and the other half sits there looking like they have a case of botulism. Submit the speech via writing and stop the theatrics.

[TS Garp]

Yes, I am thankful there is somebody who finally will stand up to Trump in terms he understands. My estimation of Pelosi has increased ten-fold in the last few weeks.

Completely agree.

[Judge Jude]

This must be the same "national security issue" that Trump used to enact all these tariffs, lol.
Is this before or after they go to the food pantry to feed their family or declare bankruptcy?

- Trump is full of crap about tariffs, the wall, you name it.
- if you are a federal employee whose family household is at the national median level and the family is in good physical and emotional health, but you have saved so little that you can't afford to buy food after missing a paycheck, then...... well, you're the financial planning expert. are these families living on a sensible budget?

[revo]

- if you are a federal employee whose family household is at the national median level and the family is in good physical and emotional health, but you have saved so little that you can't afford to buy food after missing a paycheck, then...... well, you're the financial planning expert. are these families living on a sensible budget?

Don't pull a Lara Trump here, JJ! It's not a good look! But yeah, in my experience, the vast majority of people have little savings, and to some that I've met, the concept of savings is so foreign to them, they don't understand it.

"A 2017 survey found that 78 percent of full-time workers live paycheck to paycheck, with 56 percent saying they were overwhelmed by debt. There was no differentiation for federal employees."

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/422411-gop-lawmaker-doubts-government-workers-live-paycheck-to-paycheck

[Kevin Seitzer]

- Trump is full of crap about tariffs, the wall, you name it.
- if you are a federal employee whose family household is at the national median level and the family is in good physical and emotional health, but you have saved so little that you can't afford to buy food after missing a paycheck, then...... well, you're the financial planning expert. are these families living on a sensible budget?

So screw the people who aren't in good physical and emotional health, or who don't have savings for one reason or another?

My family is prepared to weather a few months without a paycheck, but I count myself very privileged to be in that situation. Most of the people I grew up with lived paycheck to paycheck. I don't consider screwing over those kind of people to be something trivial, or due to bad planning on their part.

[DMT]

Wow JJ that's quite the take on the situation.

[onejayhawk]

So screw the people who aren't in good physical and emotional health, or who don't have savings for one reason or another?

That seems to be the Democrat's position. No negotiations except complete surrender.

Wow JJ that's quite the take on the situation.

Take out the sarcasm and I'd agree with you.

Seems like this would be a strategic blunder by Pelosi. she already was caught lying about how this speech would be "a national security problem" because..... well, let's not get bogged down in the details, folks. most people aren't paying much attention to any of this and won't watch Trump's speech anyway. but bucking tradition and not opening the doors to Trump's State speech will look, well, like Trump-level pettiness.

Agree with this too. It appears the address will orginate from Trump Towers.

J

[Judge Jude]

So screw the people who aren't in good physical and emotional health, or who don't have savings for one reason or another?

My family is prepared to weather a few months without a paycheck, but I count myself very privileged to be in that situation. Most of the people I grew up with lived paycheck to paycheck. I don't consider screwing over those kind of people to be something trivial, or due to bad planning on their part.

- the wall is stupid.
- the shutdown is outrageous.
- for those whose family circumstances are such that saving is impossible, I empathize with them. that's why we need to end this stupid showdown ASAP.

food, water, transportation, shelter, health care plan - next is rainy-day savings, isn't it?
and if, after the rainy-day savings is addressed, there's nothing left for a fancy dinner or a show, then well, maybe next month.

I am glad these food pantries are open and people are getting enough to eat.
And once this over, I'll be REALLY glad if many of these families visit a financial planner to examine how to rightsize the annual budget. might mean a used car instead of a new one, shorter vacations, moving into a smaller residence, etc.

all of those are vastly preferable, I would think, to their current situation.

I am fortunate not only to have had good parents, but parents who grew up in The Great Depression. they had nothing. my mother's father, a stone mason who died before I was born, threw out his back and couldn't work - in the days before Social Security. that left the family of nine homeless at times.

the result of all that was sensible planning - they knew bad times could be right around the corner, because they had lived it.

I got on my first plane when I was 22, the same year I first went out to a decent sitdown restaurant. Splurging was a once-a-month (maybe) ride to Kentucky Fried Chicken.

from Revo: "A 2017 survey found that 78 percent of full-time workers live paycheck to paycheck, with 56 percent saying they were overwhelmed by debt. There was no differentiation for federal employees."

anyone who does not find this to a MASS cultural collective insanity is, well, insane.

yeah, yeah, old-fashioned, out of touch, etc.

but it's the truth. savings HAS to be a priority in your family - way ahead of lots of discretionary spending.
and if the kids complain, well, you're teaching them values that will serve them well.

I was specifically addressing "a federal employee whose family household is at the national median level and the family is in good physical and emotional health." if THEY need to go to a food pantry after missing one paycheck, it's hardly helpful for people to act as if, "yeah, that seems like an understandable outcome." it's not - in that circumstance, which I suspect pretty well describes a good chunk of those federal workers.

I know people here will disagree with me about the urgency and importance of savings just because.... well, just because. but maybe give it a little thought.

[DMT]

When you say it like that, yes it is true that Americans generally overspend. One look at the national credit card debt makes that crystal clear. That doesn't change the fact that these people are being denied paychecks because our POTUS is a completely infantile asshole who doesn't give a shit about them.

[Judge Jude]

you'll have to look elsewhere to find someone to defend Trump on this or most anything.

and I didn't get to the next level - longterm credit card debt, when completely avoidable, is utterly irresponsible and leaves so many children stuck in situations they shouldn't be.

it sounds like Revo has become somewhat numb to the ignorance - which frankly would be the only way to survive in such a profession!

I remember a comedian telling a joke about a homeless man who asks for money because "I'm broke."

"You're not broke," says the comedian, "you're EVEN! I'm still paying 18 percent interest on a dinner I had three years ago."

but nobody wants to talk about savings - too many shiny objects out there. buy first, and enjoy for a few weeks til that credit card bill comes.

[fuhrdog]

That seems to be the Democrat's position. No negotiations except complete surrender.

Wonder where they learned that?

[revo]

it sounds like Revo has become somewhat numb to the ignorance - which frankly would be the only way to survive in such a profession!

I remember a comedian telling a joke about a homeless man who asks for money because "I'm broke."

"You're not broke," says the comedian, "you're EVEN! I'm still paying 18 percent interest on a dinner I had three years ago."

but nobody wants to talk about savings - too many shiny objects out there. buy first, and enjoy for a few weeks til that credit card bill comes.

It’s not being numb to it, more like helpless. Not to derail our Trump thread, but I had a conversation with a 60-yr old couple a couple of months ago. They want to retire in 5 years. Have ZERO savings. Like NONE. They make about $100k combined. When I told them that you’d probably need $1m saved up to draw $50k a year from it, he was almost shocked when I said he needed to at least put away $25k a year immediately, so they would have SOMETHING to draw from. I can’t do that! Well, how can I help you? I don’t know, we were hoping you could make us a plan. Yeah, the plan is SAVE EVERY DIME YOU HAVE NOW!

His response? Can we wait until after the Holidays? *sigh*

[Sour Masher]

It’s not being numb to it, more like helpless. Not to derail our Trump thread, but I had a conversation with a 60-yr old couple a couple of months ago. They want to retire in 5 years. Have ZERO savings. Like NONE. They make about $100k combined. When I told them that you’d probably need $1m saved up to draw $50k a year from it, he was almost shocked when I said he needed to at least put away $25k a year immediately, so they would have SOMETHING to draw from. I can’t do that! Well, how can I help you? I don’t know, we were hoping you could make us a plan. Yeah, the plan is SAVE EVERY DIME YOU HAVE NOW!

His response? Can we wait until after the Holidays? *sigh*

I hate to further derail, but I figured I'd give you guys a ray of hope on this. I had a student over winter break in an online class who wrote in his free write journal that he has over 50k in stocks. He is a 22 year old first generation immigrant. Not a rich kid, but I guess he is doing okay and has a part time job. He says that every year since he was 18, any time he ever has the urge to but a cup of coffee at starbucks, or buy a pair of shoes he doesn't need, or eat out when he could make a cheaper meal at home, he puts the amount that thing would cost into his equities account. Just doing that over the last 4 years has gotten him up to 50k. Hard to believe, but he had no reason too lie in his free-writes.

[Judge Jude]

yeah, I needed that after Revo's story.


I mentioned here a few years ago that I didn't understand why the right was still pushing the "self-preservation, you don't want to rely on the government" mantra. listen, it's the smartest thing that anyone can do.

but the war is long over. Later Baby Boomers continue to retire into less and less, and they will be a large group that votes. taxes must and will go up exponentially to keep these Boomers afloat. the tax rise for the 1 percent is fine, because by all sane accounts they took almost all of the added income from the last 20+ years anyway. the rise for the middle class will suck, because clueless Boomers will be charging their kids and grandkids to pay for their indulgences.

millennials will be smarter with money, I think, because while their era of course doesn't match the Depression, they are more likely to have grown up with some sense of economic insecurity. (casinos struggle to get that generation to gamble, because they relate to money differently. many won't use traditional banks, because they are the ones that stole all the money in 2008 era. I can't really blame them.)

I have 10 millennial nephews and nieces, and they as a group are very smart with their finances.

[Sour Masher]

yeah, I needed that after Revo's story.


I mentioned here a few years ago that I didn't understand why the right was still pushing the "self-preservation, you don't want to rely on the government" mantra. listen, it's the smartest thing that anyone can do.

but the war is long over. Later Baby Boomers continue to retire into less and less, and they will be a large group that votes. taxes must and will go up exponentially to keep these Boomers afloat. the tax rise for the 1 percent is fine, because by all sane accounts they took almost all of the added income from the last 20+ years anyway. the rise for the middle class will suck, because clueless Boomers will be charging their kids and grandkids to pay for their indulgences.

millennials will be smarter with money, I think, because while their era of course doesn't match the Depression, they are more likely to have grown up with some sense of economic insecurity. (casinos struggle to get that generation to gamble, because they relate to money differently. many won't use traditional banks, because they are the ones that stole all the money in 2008 era. I can't really blame them.)

I have 10 millennial nephews and nieces, and they as a group are very smart with their finances.

I think you are on target with all of this. The bitch of it is, from a fiscal conservative standpoint, the Republican party has really, really bungled this thing in terms of alienating so many fiscal conservative allies among immigrants. Most 1st/2nd generation immigrants that I know are fiscal conservatives. They come from countries where they don't trust their corrupt governments all that much, and many don't even like credit. The idea of higher taxes and government controlled resources isn't super appealing to many of them. However, lots are turned off by the Republican party for other obvious reasons.

I've long thought it there were a fiscally moderate/conservative party that wanted lower taxes (or at least not higher taxes), but more at the expense of the military industrial complex and government waste and graft than social programs focused on helping the young, old, and disabled, and also minus all the racism, sexism, and socio-religious conservativism that we see in the modern Republican Party, it would dominate.