President Donald Trump

[Kevin Seitzer]

Actually someone here said that they weren't innocent - I believe it was something like: "Just because they didn't instigate it doesn't make them innocent."

Also, we dont know of anyone here that has specifically called for violence against the kids

Seriously? Because someone here says the kids weren't innocent that's equivalent in your mind to possibly calling for violence?

but holy shit was Twitter was awash with comments

On Twitter, I have personally found that I find what I am looking for. I don't go looking for political commentary on Twitter. I target very carefully and narrowly who I want to follow and listen to on that platform and I don't experience nearly the level of garbage that some other people seem to experience.

[nots]

Sorry your faux outrage at the left is laughable when we have a president who won't even condemn white supremacists.

A. I am not outraged faux or otherwise . Just passing time on an unseasonably chilly day here in Florida.
B. You are moving the goal posts quite a bit with this post. We were talking about an incident on Saturday.
C. I can’t control who Donald Trump does and does not condemn. I can however, respond to your misguided assignment of blame in the incident you brought up.

[baldgriff]

Seriously? Because someone here says the kids weren't innocent that's equivalent in your mind to possibly calling for violence?

No I was clarifying that while no one defended the people calling the teenagers sodomites – they merely stated the kids were not innocent (even though we now know they didn’t initiate anything).

On Twitter, I have personally found that I find what I am looking for. I don't go looking for political commentary on Twitter. I target very carefully and narrowly who I want to follow and listen to on that platform and I don't experience nearly the level of garbage that some other people seem to experience.

I dont use Twitter - I see articles from various sources noting that these types of things were being said and how it doesn’t appear that anyone is holding these people accountable.

Sorry your faux outrage at the left is laughable when we have a president who won't even condemn white supremacists.

True and he should – and there are plenty of people on center right/right here that have no issue stating that the President should call these people out, and that white supremacists should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I would like to think that some of the lefties here don’t agree with the calls to violence and would state such – rather than equivocating and saying “well the President……..”. I thought we are to hold ourselves to a higher standard – but if you are ok with these people on the left calling for physical violence to these kids or doxing – that’s just a step to far for me.

[DMT]

but if you are ok with these people on the left calling for physical violence to these kids or doxing

I've made multiple comments directly contradicting your assertion here so you're either being deliberately obtuse or...not sure what else honestly.

[baldgriff]

I've made multiple comments directly contradicting your assertion here so you're either being deliberately obtuse or...not sure what else honestly.

You did say that the Black Israeli group had some blame in this when you said:

I've already acknowledged that they are at fault here as well and in no way excuse their behaviors. Hurling derogatory and bigoted remarks at a group of kids is inexcusable.

Although this was the first time in this specific conversation that you assigned any responsibility to anyone other than the White Catholic kids.


So I was looking for any recent comments contradicting my assertion. I've gone back and looked at a number of pages related to the discussion around this specific topic. Not only have you not stated that it is wrong for the people on the left (Twitter) calling for violence to the kids - you actually spent more time trying to put the blame on the kids. Your statement about Twitter was:

The Twitter mob is out of hand I agree. But stop pretending these kids are innocent victims. They're most likely entitled rich kids who were in DC to protest reproductive rights and decided to mock Native Americans (and others, including women) because none of their chaperones had the good sense to make them stop or move them away from the situation. Just because they didn't instigate it doesn't make them innocent.

I would like for you to state for the record that those individuals from the left who called for physical harm or doxing of these kids were and are wrong to do so.

Ive already stated that our President should be calling out racism.

[DMT]

I would like for you to state for the record that those individuals from the left who called for physical harm or doxing of these kids were and are wrong to do so.

Ive already stated that our President should be calling out racism.

Oh brother. Ok I'll state for the record that those people are wrong. Not sure how else you're interpreting "the Twitter mob is out of hand". My point in stating that the MAGAts are not innocent is that they're not innocent. They were disrespectful to an elder Native American and at least one woman from another video I saw. Undoubtedly there were others given the behaviors captured on the videos. They're dumb kids I get that, and their lives shouldn't be ruined over these incidents. At no point have I written otherwise.

I feel the school administration and the adult chaperones present on the trip are more to blame than the kids themselves.

[baldgriff]

Oh brother. Ok I'll state for the record that those people are wrong. Not sure how else you're interpreting "the Twitter mob is out of hand". My point in stating that the MAGAts are not innocent is that they're not innocent. They were disrespectful to an elder Native American and at least one woman from another video I saw. Undoubtedly there were others given the behaviors captured on the videos. They're dumb kids I get that, and their lives shouldn't be ruined over these incidents. At no point have I written otherwise.

I feel the school administration and the adult chaperones present on the trip are more to blame than the kids themselves.

Ok - as long as we agree that calling for people to punch someone in the face or kick him in the nuts is not cool - Some may call it an incitement to violence. Would that be hate speech??

[Kevin Seitzer]

Ok - as long as we agree that calling for people to punch someone in the face or kick him in the nuts is not cool - Some may call it an incitement to violence. Would that be hate speech??

I don't understand why you are so fixated on what the Twitterverse has said. Twitter is a little bit like the ability to read minds. It sounds cool in theory, but in practice you realize that a lot of people think ugly things and maybe you really don't want a window into what a billion people are thinking at any given time.

Does that mean I think it's fine that someone gets threats on Twitter? No, I do not. But I don't understand why that is where you have landed on and camped out and built a home in this particular discussion.

[baldgriff]

I don't understand why you are so fixated on what the Twitterverse has said. Twitter is a little bit like the ability to read minds. It sounds cool in theory, but in practice you realize that a lot of people think ugly things and maybe you really don't want a window into what a billion people are thinking at any given time.

Does that mean I think it's fine that someone gets threats on Twitter? No, I do not. But I don't understand why that is where you have landed on and camped out and built a home in this particular discussion.

Is directly calling for someone to punch a kid in the face or offer to give people money for kicking him in the nuts an incitement to violence?? Is it hate speech?

Very simple question - not a fixation.

[Fresno Bob]

No, but the focus by you (and now Fresno Bob) is clearly on the students reaction, not the insults by the BIs, not the untruthfulness of the Native American and not on the culpability of the media. When the posts begin to reflect who created and escalated the situation, we can have a credible dialogue about the kids role in it.
For someone who eschews ‘both sides do it’ rhetoric, you are clinging pretty hard to the concept on this one.

my issue is not with the dumbshit kids (and they are dumbshits, as are 90% of high school boys, as evident by the multiple videos of them screaming "MAGA" at random women walking by) but with the dumbshit school adminstrators and chaperones, that either should know better, or wanted this exact response. Either one is deplorable

[Fresno Bob]

Can you imagine yourself calling teenagers sodomites?

Nope, but then again, I don't know anyone from Sodom. I would call them hypocritical, as Jesus would never wear a MAGA hat, nor stand for what it stands for.

[TranaGreg]

I dont use Twitter - I see articles from various sources noting that these types of things were being said and how it doesn’t appear that anyone is holding these people accountable.

Ok - as long as we agree that calling for people to punch someone in the face or kick him in the nuts is not cool - Some may call it an incitement to violence. Would that be hate speech??

I do use twitter, so I ran a test just now ... my theory is that anyone - ANYONE - in the public eye has had a tweet about them getting punched in the face. So I picked three people in the news today.
If all of this is considered hate speech then, well, were gonna need a bigger boat. Here goes ...

[nots]

my issue is not with the dumbshit kids (and they are dumbshits, as are 90% of high school boys, as evident by the multiple videos of them screaming "MAGA" at random women walking by) but with the dumbshit school adminstrators and chaperones, that either should know better, or wanted this exact response. Either one is deplorable

I would say the ones who wanted this exact response were the Native American, the Black Israelites, and the folks that were filming and then posting it.

[Judge Jude]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/tech/twitter-suspends-account-native-american-maga-teens/index.html

US gets played for chumps again. please spread the word about THIS on social media:

"New York (CNN Business)Twitter suspended an account on Monday afternoon that helped spread a controversial encounter between a Native American elder and a group of high school students wearing Make America Great Again hats.

The account claimed to belong to a California schoolteacher. Its profile photo was not of a schoolteacher, but of a blogger based in Brazil, CNN Business found. Twitter suspended the account soon after CNN Business asked about it.

On Tuesday, a source familiar with Twitter's investigation into the account said the company's initial findings suggest that the account was run from the United States. The source cautioned, however, that determining which country a Twitter account is actually run from can be very difficult.

The account, with the username @2020fight, was set up in December 2016 and appeared to be the tweets of a woman named Talia living in California. "Teacher & Advocate. Fighting for 2020," its Twitter bio read. Since the beginning of this year, the account had tweeted on average 130 times a day and had more than 40,000 followers."

Late on Friday, the account posted a minute-long video showing the now-iconic confrontation between a Native American elder and the high school students, with the caption, "This MAGA loser gleefully bothering a Native American protester at the Indigenous Peoples March."

That version of the video was viewed at least 2.5 million times and was retweeted at least 14,400 times, according to a cached version of the tweet seen by CNN Business.

The video shared by @2020fight did not show what preceded the confrontation between the Native American elder and the high school students."

[B-Fly]

We each have our brand, and the narrower and more unyielding it is, the more currency it has and the more loyal our consumers. Instead of bucking the political tribalism in America, we ride it.

We react to news by trying to fit it into the argument that we routinely make, the grievance that we usually raise, the fury or angst or sorrow that we typically peddle. We have our narrative, and we’re on the lookout for comments and developments that back it up. The response to the initial footage of the teenagers from Covington Catholic High School — and, in particular, to the one who wore a red MAGA cap as he stood before and stared at the drumming veteran — adhered to this dynamic.

Was that a smirk on the teenager’s face? A sneer? His expression was just indefinite enough to become a symbol of entitlement for the pundits who favor that locution, of the white patriarchy for another group, of the wages of Trumpism, of the fraudulence of Catholicism.

And while many pundits’ outrage was correctly calibrated to what they assumed was going on, it was built on assumption. It was hasty. A crowd was forming and the clock was ticking and nobody wanted to be late to the inquisition. A “hot take” is prized — hence the well-known phrase for this instant analysis. Nobody talks about a “cold take,” though that’s the temperature of truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/opinion/covington-teenagers-twitter.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage