President Donald Trump

[DMT]

Gotcha. Party of tolerance, right? How about I stop pretending Libertarianism is a great alternative, when you stop pretending liberalism is.

But liberalism isn't an alternative, it's one of the most popular viewpoints in the world.

[Judge Jude]

It is bizarre but Buzzfeed would be done if this story is fabricated...I can't imagine they'd commit suicide to dominate a news cycle or two.

ruh roh on one of the bylines

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/media/buzzfeed-reporter-jason-leopold/index.html

"I have a checkered past, and I was hoping that by coming clean about my own past, it would allow me to move forward," Leopold wrote, according to a 2005 article in The Washington Post.

But in 2006, Leopold found himself again in controversy. He reported for Truthout.org that then-top White House aide Karl Rove had told then-President Bush and other administration officials that he was going to be indicted in relation to the Valerie Plame affair. Leopold cited "people knowledgeable about these discussions" and reported Rove's "indictment is imminent." But Rove never faced any charges.

A 2015 profile of Leopold in The New York Times noted that he has "been through a series of scandals." But the Times also noted Leopold was able to make a comeback by breaking stories uncovered through the submission of Freedom of Information Act requests. He earned the nickname, featured in his Twitter profile, of the "FOIA terrorist."

"I love the score," he told the Times "So maybe there's this drug-ish thing in me that still exists, maybe that was always part of my personality. I love the score. I love the score! Particularly when it is from the government! I just got you to give me your own documents, you know!"

[DMT]

And another lie of omission perpetrated daily by our media is why are so many people fleeing Central American countries? Gee, maybe because the US sanctioned various reigns of terror there throughout the 80s? Chomsky has covered it in great depth if anyone can't recall or more likely wants to forget.

[nots]

But liberalism isn't an alternative, it's one of the most popular viewpoints in the world.

Popular isn’t always correct, right? Conservatism is ‘one of the most popular viewpoints in the world’ too, correct?

[DMT]

Popular isn’t always correct, right? Conservatism is ‘one of the most popular viewpoints in the world’ too, correct?

Sure, but no one is claiming it as an "alternative". You and BG (maybe others don't recall) like to tout your Libertarianism, generally with little push back because it is a fringe movement in our society.

[baldgriff]

Libertarianism is based on a mentality of "everything for me, nothing for anyone else". So stop pretending that it's such a great alternative. There's a reason it gains almost traction. It's abhorrent.

Actually Libertarianism is more for you - and for me. You do whatever the hell you want to do and as long as your stuff doesnt affect my stuff - I couldnt give a rats ass what you do.

I dont give a shit whether your Black, White, Indian, Asian, Eskimo, Irish, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Druid, Straight, Gay, Queer or whatever else. You go do you.

The idea of "everything for me, nothing for anyone else" is the furthest thing from Libertarianism.

Glad we could get that cleared up for you.

[nots]

But liberalism isn't an alternative, it's one of the most popular viewpoints in the world.

BTW, your view on the role of the US military in the world is miles and miles closer to the Libertarian point of view than the Democratic one. I will donate $5 to our party in your name at the next meeting.

[DMT]

By the way, I'm certainly in favor of some libertarian positions, particularly on social issues like ending the drug war.

[B-Fly]

But liberalism isn't an alternative, it's one of the most popular viewpoints in the world.

Along with xenophobic hypernationalism, retrograde sexism, religious fundamentalism, etc, so popularity isn't necessary the right measure, lol.

I think libertarianism has a lot of good components/ideas, honestly, while there are then several others that I find overly doctrinal and ethically highly problematic. But I broadly am okay with the Libertarian Party having a seat at the table and a role in framing our national debates. Same with the Democratic Socialists (or the Greens). We can then discuss and debate whether our national politics are best served by enveloping folks who find either of those political philosophies most appealing to them within the larger umbrella/spectrum of the Republican Party and the Democratic Party, or whether we'd be better off if one or more of them truly emerged as a material third- or fourth-party it their own right and busted the grip of our two-party system.

[DMT]

BTW, your view on the tile of the US military in the world is mikes and mikes closer to the Libertarian point of view than the Democratic one. I will donate $5 to our party in your name at the next meeting.

You're right, I am very anti-imperialism and used to be a regular reader of antiwar.com, run by Libertarians. But I've just tired of their defense of Trump. And yes I supported his decision to pull out of Syria, although are we really pulling out? It remains to be seen.

[DMT]

Along with xenophobic hypernationalism, retrograde sexism, religious fundamentalism, etc, so popularity isn't necessary the right measure, lol.

I think libertarianism has a lot of good components/ideas, honestly, while there are then several others that I find overly doctrinal and ethically highly problematic. But I broadly am okay with the Libertarian Party having a seat at the table and a role in framing our national debates. Same with the Democratic Socialists (or the Greens). We can then discuss and debate whether our national politics are best served by enveloping folks who find either of those political philosophies most appealing to them within the larger umbrella/spectrum of the Republican Party and the Democratic Party, or whether we'd be better off if one or more of them truly emerged as a material third- or fourth-party it their own right and busted the grip of our two-party system.

I should have been more specific in saying in the US.

I fully agree I would love to see our hegemonic dual party system expanded to include more viewpoints. But what I find annoying is the constant "both parties suck" mantra as an excuse to avoid placing blame where it belongs.

[baldgriff]

Sure, but no one is claiming it as an "alternative". You and BG (maybe others don't recall) like to tout your Libertarianism, generally with little push back because it is a fringe movement in our society.

Every fucking 3rd party "alternative" is a fringe movement in our society. Libertarianism has come closer to making it on the platform, to be in the discussion, than any other 3rd party. They are the only 3rd party generally on state ballots and are at least organized in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. But yeah, we are still "fringe". In your mind because we are nuts. In my mind, because I am open to the idea that our government shouldnt be a dichotomy or two sided coin.

[baldgriff]

I should have been more specific in saying in the US.

I fully agree I would love to see our hegemonic dual party system expanded to include more viewpoints. But what I find annoying is the constant "both parties suck" mantra as an excuse to avoid placing blame where it belongs.

Both partied do suck - which is why I havent voted for them in some 20 years. They are 2 business entities that have gained opposite sides on the monopoly of the business end of politics. Again - as long as they work together to frame each issue as a 2 sided coin - they are in control of the discussion and can get Billions and Billions of dollars in funding for "their side".

Frankly - they do suck - and I place the blame at both of their feet - because they are the ones in control of it.

[DMT]

Both partied do suck - which is why I havent voted for them in some 20 years. They are 2 business entities that have gained opposite sides on the monopoly of the business end of politics. Again - as long as they work together to frame each issue as a 2 sided coin - they are in control of the discussion and can get Billions and Billions of dollars in funding for "their side".

Frankly - they do suck - and I place the blame at both of their feet - because they are the ones in control of it.

I used to be in agreement pretty strongly with this view. I voted for Nader (knowing IL was safe of course). But over time I've come to see just how un-American the Republican party is and since the Democratic party is the only one that can stop it, I have come around to embracing it, despite my reservations.

[baldgriff]

Please elaborate on the "Un-American"ness of the Republican party? I know there are socialists in the Dem party but Im curious as to what you see on the R side?

This is an honest question - and Im glad to hear that you used to be in the same camp as I am. I just can condone either of them, but I am curious about the R's and your opinion.

Thanks DMT!