President Donald Trump

[Hornsby]

SO are you saying if HRC hadnt stolen the nomination and Sanders had been the Pres Candidate with a D next to his name - most of the mainstream people you know would not have voted for him?

C'mon - you have to be kidding yourself.

Were they going to vote Stein? The Green party is further left than the D - so the mainstream isnt going there.
Were they going to vote Johnson? Maybe, but then why would they throw their vote away (as is frequently preached by those on the left if you dont vote D or R)
Were they going to vote Trump? LOL, I sincerely doubt that would have happend - though there were many touting that Trump is more of a D than an R.

Or were they just going to stay home? I suspect most mainstream D's just pull the lever for the person with the D next to their name. Sp Bernie would have had a very good chance to beat Trump.

You immediately invalidate any point you may have had by bringing up the trope that HRC "stole" the election. It's politics, she played her cards far better than Sanders did. She had allies, and they backed her up. He didn't.

[onejayhawk]

You immediately invalidate any point you may have had by bringing up the trope that HRC "stole" the election. It's politics, she played her cards far better than Sanders did. She had allies, and they backed her up. He didn't.

None of this is false.

That said, it is completely valid to complain that HRC stacked the deck at the 2012 convention. So, I feel for the Bernie supporters that think he got a raw deal. He did get a raw deal even if he did it with eyes open.

J

[onejayhawk]

You immediately invalidate any point you may have had by bringing up the trope that HRC "stole" the election. It's politics, she played her cards far better than Sanders did. She had allies, and they backed her up. He didn't.

None of this is false.

That said, it is completely valid to complain that HRC stacked the deck at the 2012 convention. So, I feel for the Bernie supporters that think he got a raw deal. He did get a raw deal even if he did it with eyes open.

I am reminded of Apollo Creeds trainer, "He doesn't know it's a damn show! He thinks it's a damn fight!"

J

[Bernie Brewer]

Smarter people than I can opine on this but 538 just put out thier latest poll data on Trump’s popularity (or not). He is at 42.9% approval rating, only 3 points behind Obama on day 671 of his presidency and one point behind Clinton on the same day of his first term. He is well behind GWB (who still was receiving the 9/11 bump), GHWB and Jimmy Carter, while he’s in a virtual tie with Reagan.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...roval-ratings/

Obama was less than 5 points better than Trump in disapproval ratings at 48.5 to 52.3. But in fairness, Obama was handed an economic bag of shit and was still trying to stem the recession from getting worse. But I didn’t recall that he had such a high, nearly 50%, disapproval factor. That is; however, when the “Red Wave” began, so I guess I shouldn’t be that surprised.

[Hornsby]

Smarter people than I can opine on this but 538 just put out thier latest poll data on Trump’s popularity (or not). He is at 42.9% approval rating, only 3 points behind Obama on day 671 of his presidency and one point behind Clinton on the same day of his first term. He is well behind GWB (who still was receiving the 9/11 bump), GHWB and Jimmy Carter, while he’s in a virtual tie with Reagan.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...roval-ratings/

Obama was less than 5 points better than Trump in disapproval ratings at 48.5 to 52.3. But in fairness, Obama was handed an economic bag of shit and was still trying to stem the recession from getting worse. But I didn’t recall that he had such a high, nearly 50%, disapproval factor. That is; however, when the “Red Wave” began, so I guess I shouldn’t be that surprised.

Obama was also a Black man, and if you don't think that played a LARGE part in disapproval ratings, I do have a bridge to sell you. And I do know that you're aware, just a figure of speech.

All you have to do is look at the overt racism coming out now because people think that it's OK because of the political climate...it's shocking, yet it's not.

[nots]

Obama was also a Black man, and if you don't think that played a LARGE part in disapproval ratings, I do have a bridge to sell you. And I do know that you're aware, just a figure of speech.

All you have to do is look at the overt racism coming out now because people think that it's OK because of the political climate...it's shocking, yet it's not.

Yep—he got elected with 53% of the vote in 2012, but his poll numbers slipped to 45% midway thru his first term because some folks suddenly discovered he was black.

[Hornsby]

Yep—he got elected with 53% of the vote in 2012, but his poll numbers slipped to 45% midway thru his first term because some folks suddenly discovered he was black.

Yawn...that's what you're bringing to the table? You really don't think that his skin color played any part in his disapproval ratings?

And just so that we're on the same page semantically, being elected with 53% of the vote doesn't mean that voters necessarily approved of Obama, they may just have disliked the other guy more. I'd rather see what his disapproval numbers were rather than his vote totals.

And actually, Obama got 51% in 2012, not 53 percent.

[nots]

Yawn...that's what you're bringing to the table? You really don't think that his skin color played any part in his disapproval ratings?

And just so that we're on the same page semantically, being elected with 53% of the vote doesn't mean that voters necessarily approved of Obama, they may just have disliked the other guy more. I'd rather see what his disapproval numbers were rather than his vote totals.

His approval rating was 69% shortly after his inauguration. It slumped to 45% post midterm. And rebounded to 59% at the end of his 2nd term. Your contention that a quarter of the country caught a bad case of racism (and then a good many overcame their racism later in his term) is silly. The folks that are racist never approved of him. Others judged him on how he was doing while on office. Take a lap and sit out the next couple of plays.

[Hornsby]

His approval rating was 69% shortly after his inauguration. It slumped to 45% post midterm. And rebounded to 59% at the end of his 2nd term. Your contention that a quarter of the country caught a bad case of racism (and then a good many overcame their racism later in his term) is silly. The folks that are racist never approved of him. Others judged him on how he was doing while on office. Take a lap and sit out the next couple of plays.

You may want to decide what set of statistics that you're going to use, and maybe show your work as they used to say is school. The fact that he got 51%, not 53% in 2012, as you stated, makes me wonder where you're getting your numbers. And if you really think that there was no racism in the Obama numbers, I can't help you.

[nots]

Typo. 53% in 2008, which should have been obvious when I mentioned his first term but yes, 51% in the 2012 election.
All of which still doesn’t change the fact he had a 69% approval rating immediately after his inauguration and it fell to 45% after his first midterm for reasons other racism and rebounded to 59% at the end of his terms for reasons other than less racism. But you know that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_approval_rating

[Hornsby]

Typo. 53% in 2008, which should have been obvious when I mentioned his first term but yes, 51% in the 2012 election.
All of which still doesn’t change the fact he had a 69% approval rating immediately after his inauguration and it fell to 45% after his first midterm for reasons other racism and rebounded to 59% at the end of his terms for reasons other than less racism. But you know that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit...pproval_rating

And you know that there was plenty of racism involved...unless you happened to miss the birther movement, the scores of online anti Obama web sites revolving around racism, the memes that still float around the internet, etc, etc, etc. But you know that...

And the dates of the numbers you chose are ...interesting. Highest approval for Obama? His initial inauguration date. Highest Disapproval? Middle of his 2nd term, which pretty much coincides with his lowest approval rating. That 59% approval rating you quote was right at the end of his Presidency, 1/19/17...I surmise that people at that time realized just what happened with the election of Trump, and had a bad case of buyers remorse. Obama's average approval rating was 47.9%, Trumps was 39%, but there's no polling listed for 2018 on that Wiki site.

Bottom line is that we can go back and forth on this for days, each picking numbers that support our respective positions. I choose to believe that the racism that has publicly surfaced under Trump was certainly present for Obama, just more concealed. I suspect that you do as well...

[revo]

Obama started off popular, but once Fox News sank their teeth into him and made it seem like he was unabashedly favoring blacks (anyone remember the free Obama phones?), his popularity plummeted with, you guessed it, white seniors.

Also, I tend to believe that many whites who gave Obama an initial chance gave up on him due to racism, kind of like those black NFL head coaches who finally get their chance but are canned much sooner than their white counterparts would be, and are never given a shot again. The whole Obamacare debate was a lesson in racism, as many whites believed blacks would benefit from this much more than whites would, and if there's anything we know about white GOPers, it's that they care far more about another group NOT benefiting than if they benefit.

[Redbirds Fan]

Obama started off popular, but once Fox News sank their teeth into him and made it seem like he was unabashedly favoring blacks (anyone remember the free Obama phones?), his popularity plummeted with, you guessed it, white seniors.

Also, I tend to believe that many whites who gave Obama an initial chance gave up on him due to racism, kind of like those black NFL head coaches who finally get their chance but are canned much sooner than their white counterparts would be, and are never given a shot again. The whole Obamacare debate was a lesson in racism, as many whites believed blacks would benefit from this much more than whites would, and if there's anything we know about white GOPers, it's that they care far more about another group NOT benefiting than if they benefit.

Didn't the cellphone phase of this program start with President Bush?

[revo]

Didn't the cellphone phase of this program start with President Bush?

Shhhhhhh -- it would destroy the narrative that Obama was favoring blacks.

[chancellor]

The whole Obamacare debate was a lesson in racism, as many whites believed blacks would benefit from this much more than whites would, and if there's anything we know about white GOPers, it's that they care far more about another group NOT benefiting than if they benefit.

Hmmmm....methinks you are seriously wrong here. Blaming whites, and especially seniors, with racism when the CBO stated Obamacare would result in $714 million in Medicare reductions is a pretty damn bad conclusion, IMO. As it turned out, the actual cuts were less - due to the typical Medicare make-up payments to docs - but seniors didn’t know that when the CBO report came out and was reported on.