President Donald Trump

[Bernie Brewer]

Tulsa Gabbard with a vicious smackdown:

"Hey @realdonaldtrump: being Saudi Arabia's bitch is not "America First."

Daaaaaaamn.

I can’t stand Kamikaze Harris, but I really like Tulsa Gabbard. I could vote for her.

Edited to add: That’s funny, AutoCorrect changed Kamila to kamikaze.

[Sour Masher]

I can’t stand Kamikaze Harris, but I really like Tulsa Gabbard. I could vote for her.

Edited to add: That’s funny, AutoCorrect changed Kamila to kamikaze.

What do you have about Harris?

[Bernie Brewer]

What do you have about Harris?

Well, first, I’m not a left leaning democrat. I don’t like her personality and think she grandstands every time she has media attention. Like during the Kavanugh Hearings. If you aren’t a democrat you likely thought that she and several Dems overplayed their hands and were already running for office. I’m not suggesting Republicans didn’t over play their hands as well, they did, but she rubbed me the wrong way. As someone searching for a political home that is not Trump, she ain’t it. She isn’t someone who the middle will warm up to IMHO and whomever runs, to win, they’ll need to do that.

Edited to add: but I will concede that almost any democrat considering a run has to be better than Trump. Maybe not for me, but for all of us.

[Sour Masher]

Well, first, I’m not a left leaning democrat. I don’t like her personality and think she grandstands every time she has media attention. Like during the Kavanugh Hearings. If you aren’t a democrat you likely thought that she and several Dems overplayed their hands and were already running for office. I’m not suggesting Republicans didn’t over play their hands as well, they did, but she rubbed me the wrong way. As someone searching for a political home that is not Trump, she ain’t it. She isn’t someone who the middle will warm up to IMHO and whomever runs, to win, they’ll need to do that.

Edited to add: but I will concede that almost any democrat considering a run has to be better than Trump. Maybe not for me, but for all of us.

It will be interesting to see if Dems end up going toward the middle or toward the progressive left. They gain and lose votes going in either direction. I'm not sure which direction leads to the best chance of beating Trump. After all, HRC was centrist in many ways. I understand she carried special, heavy baggage, but for whatever reasons she lost, since she was also in the middle on many issues, Dems may be wary of going for a moderate and decide to go more progressive. Or it may just come down to who runs the best race and their personality. IDK.

[revo]

When asked what he’s most thankful for, Dopey says he’s most thankful “for the difference I made in this country.”

What an embarrassment. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone except Dumb Donald!

[Bernie Brewer]

It will be interesting to see if Dems end up going toward the middle or toward the progressive left. They gain and lose votes going in either direction. I'm not sure which direction leads to the best chance of beating Trump. After all, HRC was centrist in many ways. I understand she carried special, heavy baggage, but for whatever reasons she lost, since she was also in the middle on many issues, Dems may be wary of going for a moderate and decide to go more progressive. Or it may just come down to who runs the best race and their personality. IDK.

The elections these days are all about the middle, whether it’s 5% or 20%, that’s where the win will come. Appeal to disenfranchised GOPers with an electable moderate and that will win. Hillary may have been a moderate, but she was unlikable and even reviled by many/maybe most non-democrats in 2016 and she lost by some states by fractions. My opinion.

[Teenwolf]

The elections these days are all about the middle, whether it’s 5% or 20%, that’s where the win will come. Appeal to disenfranchised GOPers with an electable moderate and that will win. Hillary may have been a moderate, but she was unlikable and even reviled by many/maybe most non-democrats in 2016 and she lost by some states by fractions. My opinion.

So Hillary's platform with a different face? That's a recipe for failure. If Dems elevate another neo-Liberal phony, Trump could win. It's his only shot. Why on earth do you think he voiced his support for Nancy Pelosi?! That's exactly what they want, Dems represented by the fundraising class so they're easy to dismantle.

Funny that Bernie sounds like the typical viewpoint from Morning Joe. I think right wingers who abandoned Trump to tell Dems to ignore Progressives can fuck right off (not BB, media figures). Ignoring progressives was another losing strategy in '16. If Dems nominate 'Republican-lite', they will get crushed for not standing for anything. They'll get swift-boated, they'll get 'lock her up'-style out-frenzied... Republicans only need an enemy. Stop making it so easy with losers like Pelosi.

[Bernie Brewer]

So Hillary's platform with a different face? That's a recipe for failure. If Dems elevate another neo-Liberal phony, Trump could win. It's his only shot. Why on earth do you think he voiced his support for Nancy Pelosi?! That's exactly what they want, Dems represented by the fundraising class so they're easy to dismantle.

Funny that Bernie sounds like the typical viewpoint from Morning Joe. I think right wingers who abandoned Trump to tell Dems to ignore Progressives can fuck right off (not BB, media figures). Ignoring progressives was another losing strategy in '16. If Dems nominate 'Republican-lite', they will get crushed for not standing for anything. They'll get swift-boated, they'll get 'lock her up'-style out-frenzied... Republicans only need an enemy. Stop making it so easy with losers like Pelosi.

Good guess, if that was you’re intent, on me basing my opinion on some Fox News show. But, then again, not really! As an admitted recovering CNN addict from way back, I’ve probably only watched a grand total of two hours (maybe four) combined of Fox News in my lifetime (not including when it’s on in the back ground in some waiting room while I’m at a mechanic, doctors office, etc.). Hard to believe considering that I’m such a “right winger” and all. To paraphrase of Obi-Wan, I am not the “right winger” you’re looking for. SM asked me my opinion on Harris and I gave it. Although I’m clearly far right of you, but I’m hardly a right winger. I’ve considered myself a social liberal, fiscal conservative since I can remember. Now, given my advanced age, I’ll admit that remembering things can be a bit difficult! Yes, I have identified as a “Republican,” and have stated my dislike of the Democratic Party (actually both parties), but I’ve never been registered in any party. The only national candidates that I have ever donated to were John B. Anderson and Mitch Romney.

If the Democratic Party really wanted my vote, of which I actually have one, they would try to appeal to voters in the middle. If they run a progressive like Harris, Booker, Warren or your bud Bernie, when they lose in 2020, they’ll have no one to blame but themselves. Bernie splintered Hillary’s vote total and as a result we have Trump!

[B-Fly]

Good guess, if that was you’re intent, on me basing my opinion on some Fox News show. But, then again, not really! As an admitted recovering CNN addict from way back, I’ve probably only watched a grand total of two hours (maybe four) combined of Fox News in my lifetime (not including when it’s on in the back ground in some waiting room while I’m at a mechanic, doctors office, etc.). Hard to believe considering that I’m such a “right winger” and all. To paraphrase of Obi-Wan, I am not the “right winger” you’re looking for. SM asked me my opinion on Harris and I gave it. Although I’m clearly far right of you, but I’m hardly a right winger. I’ve considered myself a social liberal, fiscal conservative since I can remember. Now, given my advanced age, I’ll admit that remembering things can be a bit difficult! Yes, I have identified as a “Republican,” and have stated my dislike of the Democratic Party (actually both parties), but I’ve never been registered in any party. The only national candidates that I have ever donated to were John B. Anderson and Mitch Romney.

If the Democratic Party really wanted my vote, of which I actually have one, they would try to appeal to voters in the middle. If they run a progressive like Harris, Booker, Warren or your bud Bernie, when they lose in 2020, they’ll have no one to blame but themselves. Bernie splintered Hillary’s vote total and as a result we have Trump!

Here's the rub, though. The GOP spin machine, to which you individually may or may not be vulnerable, will paint any Democratic nominee as "far left". They accused Clinton of it, despite the silliness of that. I see you've already defined Harris and Booker as "progressive", whereas in many progressive circles those two are viewed as too mainstream and beholden to big money. Booker in particular is not viewed as remotely left-wing by NJ progressives because of his support for Wall Street, "big pharma" and "education reform/charters". Harris is distrusted because of her prosecutorial background and embrace by the donor class.

https://theweek.com/articles/715955/why-leftists-dont-trust-kamala-harris-cory-booker-deval-patrick

Yet you've already ruled them out as too far left. Some of that is also their own doing, as both Booker and Harris have been working to establish/restore credibility with progressives who mistrust them. How do they do that, which is quite likely necessary to win the nomination, without simultaneously convincing folks like you that they hail from the left wing of the Democratic Party. They pretty clearly do not, in my opinion. They're mainstream insiders, qualified and connected. But somebody has to prove that they can win broad support across both the Democratic primary voter base and the general electorate. Maybe it would need to be someone a bit more removed from the day-to-day Washington sniping, like a Martin O'Malley, who despite pretty low name recognition right now, seems to be able to appeal to progressives and moderates who know of him. We'll see. But I'd urge you not to pre-judge Harris or Booker as left wing.

[Teenwolf]

Good guess, if that was you’re intent, on me basing my opinion on some Fox News show. But, then again, not really! As an admitted recovering CNN addict from way back, I’ve probably only watched a grand total of two hours (maybe four) combined of Fox News in my lifetime (not including when it’s on in the back ground in some waiting room while I’m at a mechanic, doctors office, etc.). Hard to believe considering that I’m such a “right winger” and all. To paraphrase of Obi-Wan, I am not the “right winger” you’re looking for. SM asked me my opinion on Harris and I gave it. Although I’m clearly far right of you, but I’m hardly a right winger. I’ve considered myself a social liberal, fiscal conservative since I can remember. Now, given my advanced age, I’ll admit that remembering things can be a bit difficult! Yes, I have identified as a “Republican,” and have stated my dislike of the Democratic Party (actually both parties), but I’ve never been registered in any party. The only national candidates that I have ever donated to were John B. Anderson and Mitch Romney.

If the Democratic Party really wanted my vote, of which I actually have one, they would try to appeal to voters in the middle. If they run a progressive like Harris, Booker, Warren or your bud Bernie, when they lose in 2020, they’ll have no one to blame but themselves. Bernie splintered Hillary’s vote total and as a result we have Trump!

2 points.

1) Morning Joe is MSNBC, not Fox... I'm talking about mainstream media in general. Across all "liberal news" shows, the conversation is being directed by ex-Republicans like Max Boot and Steve Schmidt and David French... CNN/MSNBC are working hard to fight the progressive agenda using pundits from both parties.

Personally, I think it's a gift to progressives when Fox News mentions Ocasio-Cortez 30 times in 1 day, with no substantive stories... their obsession with Venezuela and fear mongering will help propel the progressive message, I believe.

2) people will make any excuse for Hillary's loss... despite Bernie Sanders campaigning acroos the country for Hillary in '16, you still buy that it's all his fault. Damn, I'll just never get it. Agree to disagree.

[Bernie Brewer]

Here's the rub, though. The GOP spin machine, to which you individually may or may not be vulnerable, will paint any Democratic nominee as "far left". They accused Clinton of it, despite the silliness of that. I see you've already defined Harris and Booker as "progressive", whereas in many progressive circles those two are viewed as too mainstream and beholden to big money. Booker in particular is not viewed as remotely left-wing by NJ progressives because of his support for Wall Street, "big pharma" and "education reform/charters". Harris is distrusted because of her prosecutorial background and embrace by the donor class.

https://theweek.com/articles/715955/why-leftists-dont-trust-kamala-harris-cory-booker-deval-patrick

Yet you've already ruled them out as too far left. Some of that is also their own doing, as both Booker and Harris have been working to establish/restore credibility with progressives who mistrust them. How do they do that, which is quite likely necessary to win the nomination, without simultaneously convincing folks like you that they hail from the left wing of the Democratic Party. They pretty clearly do not, in my opinion. They're mainstream insiders, qualified and connected. But somebody has to prove that they can win broad support across both the Democratic primary voter base and the general electorate. Maybe it would need to be someone a bit more removed from the day-to-day Washington sniping, like a Martin O'Malley, who despite pretty low name recognition right now, seems to be able to appeal to progressives and moderates who know of him. We'll see. But I'd urge you not to pre-judge Harris or Booker as left wing.

I’ll admit that until recently I had no opinion of either. So, yes, maybe my opinion is closed by their attempts to attract more progressive support. I think you’re right about someone with a lower profile might well be the ticket.

[Bernie Brewer]

2 points.

1) Morning Joe is MSNBC, not Fox... I'm talking about mainstream media in general. Across all "liberal news" shows, the conversation is being directed by ex-Republicans like Max Boot and Steve Schmidt and David French... CNN/MSNBC are working hard to fight the progressive agenda using pundits from both parties.

Personally, I think it's a gift to progressives when Fox News mentions Ocasio-Cortez 30 times in 1 day, with no substantive stories... their obsession with Venezuela and fear mongering will help propel the progressive message, I believe.

2) people will make any excuse for Hillary's loss... despite Bernie Sanders campaigning acroos the country for Hillary in '16, you still buy that it's all his fault. Damn, I'll just never get it. Agree to disagree.

Well, I guess that proves that I don’t watch Fox (or MSNBC!). And I don’t think I said it was all Bernie’s fault. I just theorized that Bernie people bailed on Hillary because they were still pissed about Bernie.

[Teenwolf]

Well, I guess that proves that I don’t watch Fox (or MSNBC!). And I don’t think I said it was all Bernie’s fault. I just theorized that Bernie people bailed on Hillary because they were still pissed about Bernie.

Another way of looking at it, is when Hillary was asked what concessions she planned to make to the Bernie wing, and she said "nothing, I think our direction is great", she was cutting off her own nose to spite her stupid face... man, I'd have even accepted a LIE, and then fight her later... but she was even too stupid to lie... consistently! Remember "were gonna put a lot of coal miners out of jobs!"? She's a born loser, and the right wing have perfected vilifying her. Bad combo.

Progressives were given nothing to vote for. I can see why their enthusiasm tamped down, but would place progressives pretty far down the list of reasons why she lost. I think were mostly on the same page, I'm sure we both blame Hillary largely for her own loss.

[DMT]

2020 will be very different because Trump has proven to be even worse than most people suspected. Many of those "anyone-but-Hillary" voters will become "anyone-but-Trump".

[Bernie Brewer]

I think were mostly on the same page, I'm sure we both blame Hillary largely for her own loss.

Yup. The Comey, emails, Russia, etc. didn’t help but she lost because her team got overconfident. And, now as a result we have Trump!