President Donald Trump

[Ken]

Kanye and Trump together at the same presser...Kanye actually out word-salads Trump!

I know live TV musical adaptations are all the rage lately with The Sound of Music and The Wiz, but I never would have guess that Dumb and Dumber would be next.

[The Feral Slasher]

I will be very interested to see how the Saudi killing of an American political activist, seemingly on the orders of crown prince MBS, plays out, given the crown prince's close ties to Kushner, and Trump's general attitude to the media and especially to critics of his government. Any other president would impose severe penalties in response to this, with overwhelming bipartisan support. There is already bipartisan outrage, so the ball is in Trump's court. Let's see if sees this opportunity to act in the appropriate manner in a subject it would help him greatly to do that, or if he reverts to form, and let's the crown prince get away with murder because he spoke out against the Saudi government. Since the murdered man was a critic of a different rich guy/governent, maybe he will be able to do the right thing in this case.

Haven't the Saudi's been killing dissidents/witches/Yemenis for a long time with no push back from any U.S. president ? Is it accurate to say they killed an American political activist ? Anyway, this seems like a bit of a reach, not that Trump and MBS don't deserve criticism. Maybe I'm missing something here

[cardboardbox]

Haven't the Saudi's been killing dissidents/witches/Yemenis for a long time with no push back from any U.S. president ?

this is correct.

[Sour Masher]

Haven't the Saudi's been killing dissidents/witches/Yemenis for a long time with no push back from any U.S. president ? Is it accurate to say they killed an American political activist ? Anyway, this seems like a bit of a reach, not that Trump and MBS don't deserve criticism. Maybe I'm missing something here

Reports are suggesting US intelligence was aware of the danger he was in and did not warn him. It seems unclear if they were aware he'd be killed, so it is a gray area. I certainly agree we should not have been implicitly condoning similar Saudi actions in the past. I do think it is somewhat different when the person killed is lured directly from America to be murdered for exercising the freedom of speech we hold dear. I'm not saying his death is any more of a crime than the deaths of others whom our country has been silent about in the past, but it is a more direct act of brazen disregard and disrespect toward the US. That is perhaps not morally a good reason to distinguish this act, but it certainly seems to be a distinguishing factor for many, both left and right.

[The Feral Slasher]

Reports are suggesting US intelligence was aware of the danger he was in and did not warn him. It seems unclear if they were aware he'd be killed, so it is a gray area. I certainly agree we should not have been implicitly condoning similar Saudi actions in the past. I do think it is somewhat different when the person killed is lured directly from America to be murdered for exercising the freedom of speech we hold dear. I'm not saying his death is any more of a crime than the deaths of others whom our country has been silent about in the past, but it is a more direct act of brazen disregard and disrespect toward the US. That is perhaps not morally a good reason to distinguish this act, but it certainly seems to be a distinguishing factor for many, both left and right.

The many on the left and right who are outraged by this are probably the same ones who defend Americas right to drone anyone they want, wherever in the world they want to. And are also totally fine with the Saudi's exacerbating a humanitarian crisis in Yemen. Anyway, I think we both agree the man wasn't an American as you posted, but that won't stop anyone from being outraged by this or using it to score political points.

[Sour Masher]

The many on the left and right who are outraged by this are probably the same ones who defend Americas right to drone anyone they want, wherever in the world they want to. And are also totally fine with the Saudi's exacerbating a humanitarian crisis in Yemen. Anyway, I think we both agree the man wasn't an American as you posted, but that won't stop anyone from being outraged by this or using it to score political points.

Kashoggi has been described be reporters as an "Arab-American activist." I did not check his citizenship status when initially posting. Trump too has made the point that he was not a citizen. But I think the fact that he is a long-time American resident, who was part of the American journalist community, writing for WaPo, lured from America to his death, because of things he said in America's free press, are mitigating factors to consider, which, in my mind, make this an important test case that will further confirm or run counter to the idea that Trump agrees with how despots handle critics/activists.

Trump has frequently attacked WaPo, lumping them in as opposition media/the enemy, in dangerous ways. Will he now tacitly condone killing one of their writers, or will he condemn the act, as any other president would? As my initial post said, I will be looking at how this unfolds carefully, given my opinion of Trump and his attitude toward the media, and toward despots killings critics of their government, as evident in his lack of appropriate condemnation of Putin killing Skripal. His admiration of Putin, despite (maybe in part because) of how he deals with those who speak out against him is very damning to me. I'm hoping he surprises me with this case.

Here is another perspective on why this case is one to look closely at in terms of Trump's response: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.0b1eaf45c724

[The Feral Slasher]

Kashoggi has been described be reporters as an "Arab-American activist." I did not check his citizenship status when initially posting. Trump too has made the point that he was not a citizen. But I think the fact that he is a long-time American resident, who was part of the American journalist community, writing for WaPo, lured from America to his death, because of things he said in America's free press, are mitigating factors to consider, which, in my mind, make this an important test case that will further confirm or run counter to the idea that Trump agrees with how despots handle critics/activists.

Trump has frequently attacked WaPo, lumping them in as opposition media/the enemy, in dangerous ways. Will he now tacitly condone killing one of their writers, or will he condemn the act, as any other president would? As my initial post said, I will be looking at how this unfolds carefully, given my opinion of Trump and his attitude toward the media, and toward despots killings critics of their government, as evident in his lack of appropriate condemnation of Putin killing Skripal. His admiration of Putin, despite (maybe in part because) of how he deals with those who speak out against him is very damning to me. I'm hoping he surprises me with this case.

Here is another perspective on why this case is one to look closely at in terms of Trump's response: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.0b1eaf45c724

Name the last American President who really cared how any of our despot friends handle their critics/dissidents ? We can't really be looking to Trump to hold our dictator friends to account when we have been keeping them in power for years because they are our allies can we ?

[Bernie Brewer]

Name the last American President who really cared how any of our despot friends handle their critics/dissidents ? We can't really be looking to Trump to hold our dictator friends to account when we have been keeping them in power for years because they are our allies can we?

Pssst: Apparently we are now! But that’s probably whataboutism, too!

Hey, on another front, remember when Obama was worried that Trump would never accept the legitimacy and result of the election if Hillary won, as was heavily expected? That was fun.

Fast forward to recent days. Not sure anyone saw it as ithese were hardly covered by MSM, and when covered they were essentially cheering it in, not calling it out it for potentially insighting the liberal masses to act out, or maybe even lay violence upon Republicans.

Good old Hillary:

It’s doubtful that a former American presidential candidate has ever endorsed incivility before, but Hillary Clinton is ever full of surprises.

In an interview on CNN, the erstwhile advocate of “if they go low, we go high” switched around to unapologetically call for going low, at least until Democrats retake some power in Washington.You cannot be civil with a political party,” she explained, “that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about.” She added that if Democrats retake a house of Congress, well, then, “that’s when civility can start again.”

Clinton’s statement is yet more confirmation of the radical mood of the current Democratic Party, not just in blessing tactics that once would have been anathema to the mainstream, but questioning the legitimacy of core elements of our system. The partyÂ’s base is just a few steps — and perhaps the loss of another big national election to Donald Trump — from beginning to give up on our common national life.

.

Apparently Hillary didn’t get the memo!

https://politi.co/2IPAxFJ


Heading to the NLCS, so I’ll post Erc Holders call for going low later.

[onejayhawk]

Haters will hate and Hillary has always been exhibit #1, even 25 years ago.

I get the impression you, 1jay, Chance, others on the right are able to separate the policies he has enacted from his words and behavior in a way that I am not. I get the satisfaction in his performance of delivering on his platform, although I don't agree with it at all.

If someone was enacting my agenda and acted the way he does, and said what he says, I'd still be ashamed that he is our POTUS.

This came up and it fits your comment. It isn't just supporters that separate the policies from the person. People that oppose him recognize it as well.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/andrew-sullivan-the-danger-of-trumps-accomplishments.html

It is necessary to separate the man from his work product, for good or for bad. Anything else is blind hatred (see eg, Hillary Clinton). You should recognize that he is using that blindness as a tactical advantage.

J

[Sour Masher]

Haters will hate and Hillary has always been exhibit #1, even 25 years ago.



This came up and it fits your comment. It isn't just supporters that separate the policies from the person. People that oppose him recognize it as well.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/andrew-sullivan-the-danger-of-trumps-accomplishments.html

It is necessary to separate the man from his work product, for good or for bad. Anything else is blind hatred (see eg, Hillary Clinton). You should recognize that he is using that blindness as a tactical advantage.

J

It is interesting you cited that article, since it frames the accomplishments as a shift toward authoritarianism, and as entirely negative.

But I will concede what many others on the left here will not. He has accomplished a lot during his presidency. It is hard to deny that. But I agree with the article you cited about what those accomplishes amount to, and about the dangers posed by how he has done what he has done.

[onejayhawk]

It is interesting you cited that article, since it frames the accomplishments as a shift toward authoritarianism, and as entirely negative.

But I will concede what many others on the left here will not. He has accomplished a lot during his presidency. It is hard to deny that. But I agree with the article you cited about what those accomplishes amount to, and about the dangers posed by how he has done what he has done.

He does view them as entirely negative. It's the New York Magazine so what else would you expect? Trump is opposed to his entire world view.

The real point is that it is long past time to stop treating Donald Trump as a buffoon. He only plays one on Twitter.

J

[OaklandA's]

The real point is that it is long past time to stop treating Donald Trump as a buffoon. He only plays one on Twitter.

And his TV interviews. And his press conferences. And his editorials. And his rallies. Seriously, has Trump made a coherent and intelligent public appearance since he became President? I guess when he sticks to a written script he can sound normal, but anytime he speaks on his own, he sounds incompetent.

[Sour Masher]

And his TV interviews. And his press conferences. And his editorials. And his rallies. Seriously, has Trump made a coherent and intelligent public appearance since he became President? I guess when he sticks to a written script he can sound normal, but anytime he speaks on his own, he sounds incompetent.

Yup. The fact that so many seem blind to this baffles me.

What I learned from his 60 Minutes interview is that he does not think he is a baby. In fact, he made the point multiple times. He used to think Manhattan real estate moguls were tough, but now he thinks they are babies. But not him. Maybe once, since he used to just be a real estate mogul, but not now. Not a baby.

Seriously though, I must say, it was good for him to finally take baby steps toward accepting the reality of climate change, and the atrocities Putin and Un have done.

[chancellor]

Found this interesting:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-white-house-meeting-with-musicians-included-jeff-skunk-baxter-2018-10

[revo]

Found this interesting:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...baxter-2018-10

I had read about that before. Bizarre!

This part is particularly funny:

“Rohrabacher gave the paper to Pennsylvania Rep. Curt Weldon, a Republican and member of the House Armed Services Committee, who asked, "Is this guy from Raytheon or Boeing?" according to Baxter.

Rohrabacher replied, "No, he's a guitar player for the Doobie Brothers."

Which Doobie you be?