President Donald Trump

[Sour Masher]

This might even be worse
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-point/572104/

Depressing but thoughtful analysis. It also contains, for anyone that needs them, many reminders of Trump's cruelty, ignorance, and hypocrisy. For instance,as the article highlights, Trump called for the execution of black and latinos for a crime they did not commit, and still believed they did it, even after DNA evidence exonerated them, but he believes Kavanaugh, a white man, because he strongly says he didn't do it.

I don't know if that is more an example of Trump's racism, or of his nutso perspective that reality is what one forcefully claims it to be, science and facts be damned. He believed the teenagers were murders, because they broke under interpretation and gave false confessions. He believes Kavanaugh did nothing wrong, because he said he didn't with sufficient passion and anger. He said the same thing about Putin. He believes things based on how certain people seem when they say them, or because they fit his worldview. Probably more the latter.

[onejayhawk]

And yet what is most depressing to me is that despite this being undeniably true, many are happy as pigs in slop about his performance as POTUS. I mean, the man was cheered for mocking Ford, just as he was cheered for mocking a handicapped person, etc.

It isn't as if they were not telling you why they are happy.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/10/05/mary_matalin_nothing_short_of_a_miracle_what_trump_has_got_done_in_the_face_of_constant_thwarting.html

J

[Mithrandir]

It isn't as if they were not telling you why they are happy.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/10/05/mary_matalin_nothing_short_of_a_miracle_what_trump_has_got_done_in_the_face_of_constant_thwarting.html

J

But why are you ok with Trump mocking people? Especially handicapped people. You might gain some respect if you would actually just come out and say that Trump is a fucking asshole of a human being for the way he behaves. It's not about his politics or policies, it's that he a piece of shit human being.

[cardboardbox]

And yet what is most depressing to me is that despite this being undeniably true, many are happy as pigs in slop about his performance as POTUS.

I'm fairly pleased. He's been better than I thought he'd be 2 years ago.

[DMT]

But why are you ok with Trump mocking people? Especially handicapped people. You might gain some respect if you would actually just come out and say that Trump is a fucking asshole of a human being for the way he behaves. It's not about his politics or policies, it's that he a piece of shit human being.

Exactly. (Though his policies are shit too, see the connection between his cruelty and the policies he's enacted).

[Sour Masher]

I'm fairly pleased. He's been better than I thought he'd be 2 years ago.

I get the impression you, 1jay, Chance, others on the right are able to separate the policies he has enacted from his words and behavior in a way that I am not. I get the satisfaction in his performance of delivering on his platform, although I don't agree with it at all.

If someone was enacting my agenda and acted the way he does, and said what he says, I'd still be ashamed that he is our POTUS.

[cardboardbox]

I get the impression you, 1jay, Chance, others on the right are able to separate the policies he has enacted from his words and behavior in a way that I am not. I get the satisfaction in his performance of delivering on his platform, although I don't agree with it at all.

If someone was enacting my agenda and acted the way he does, and said what he says, I'd still be ashamed that he is our POTUS.

I dont like the way he acts all the time but I'd say I'm annoyed by his behavior maybe 10-20% of the time that you are. Overall he's been much better than I expected. Two years ago I wasnt even sure he'd nominate judges I liked.

[chancellor]

If someone was enacting my agenda and acted the way he does, and said what he says, I'd still be ashamed that he is our POTUS.

I’ll grant this is true for you, but it’s far from true for the vast majority who share your views. If Bill Clinton were able to run against the candidates listed in the other thread, he’d crush them in a primary.

[Sour Masher]

I’ll grant this is true for you, but it’s far from true for the vast majority who share your views. If Bill Clinton were able to run against the candidates listed in the other thread, he’d crush them in a primary.

I don't think so, not in today's environment.

I'm about to reveal myself for maybe caring too much about rhetoric and refinement, but aside from the obviously big issue, which matters the most--their shared history of sexual assault allegations--they could not be more different in terms of how they speak and comport themselves on the national and international stage. Again, I realize the fact that I care about that as much as I do maybe reveals a certain concern for superficiality, but I think that matters in statecraft to speak carefully, clearly, coherently, tactfully, and to only make claims that are backed by credible sources. Trump is often incoherent, unclear, crass, boorish, petty, childish etc in a way that just makes my stomach churn.

I'm a writing teacher (I know it may not seem like I am, as I rarely take the time I should to proofread and edit here). The idea that a man who communicates in the manner he so often does could be out president appalls me. I'm sure you've heard this speech on the Iran nuclear deal from 2015. I don't know how you reconcile it, and other examples, with your opinion that this is an intelligent, well-informed, thoughtful leader. And this isn't even one of the many example of his pettiness, meanness, etc. It also isn't one of the many times when he makes completely false claims with no evidence to substantiate them. This is simply one of the examples when he just sounds like someone having a stroke.

"Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us."

[Mithrandir]

I’ll grant this is true for you, but it’s far from true for the vast majority who share your views. If Bill Clinton were able to run against the candidates listed in the other thread, he’d crush them in a primary.

Can you ever post about the piece of shit that Trump is without bringing up a Democrat?

[Mithrandir]

I don't think so, not in today's environment.

I'm about to reveal myself for maybe caring too much about rhetoric and refinement, but aside from the obviously big issue, which matters the most--their shared history of sexual assault allegations--they could not be more different in terms of how they speak and comport themselves on the national and international stage. Again, I realize the fact that I care about that as much as I do maybe reveals a certain concern for superficiality, but I think that matters in statecraft to speak carefully, clearly, coherently, tactfully, and to only make claims that are backed by credible sources. Trump is often incoherent, unclear, crass, boorish, petty, childish etc in a way that just makes my stomach churn.

I'm a writing teacher (I know it may not seem like I am, as I rarely take the time I should to proofread and edit here). The idea that a man who communicates in the manner he so often does could be out president appalls me. I'm sure you've heard this speech on the Iran nuclear deal from 2015. I don't know how you reconcile it, and other examples, with your opinion that this is an intelligent, well-informed, thoughtful leader. And this isn't even one of the many example of his pettiness, meanness, etc. It also isn't one of the many times when he makes completely false claims with no evidence to substantiate them. This is simply one of the examples when he just sounds like someone having a stroke.

"Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us."

Great stuff! I have no understanding how intelligent people are ok with Trumps behavior as you spelled it out.

[chancellor]

Can you ever post about the piece of shit that Trump is without bringing up a Democrat?

Just reminding you of your abject, flaming hypocrisy that shines through your Trump-whining.

[Mithrandir]

Just reminding you of your abject, flaming hypocrisy that shines through your Trump-whining.

Find a post of mine that supports the Clintons. They are elitist criminals.

And yet you still can't being yourself to criticize Trump for his despicable behavior. Trump mocked a disabled person and you seem to find no fault in that. Do you still call people retards?

[onejayhawk]

I get the impression you, 1jay, Chance, others on the right are able to separate the policies he has enacted from his words and behavior in a way that I am not. I get the satisfaction in his performance of delivering on his platform, although I don't agree with it at all.

If someone was enacting my agenda and acted the way he does, and said what he says, I'd still be ashamed that he is our POTUS.

I can understand your attitude toward his means of communication. I can understand it concerning your view of the dignity of the office. I do not understand it concerning his behavior. Apart from his speaking and tweeting, what has he done to offend anyone?

Great stuff! I have no understanding how intelligent people are ok with Trumps behavior as you spelled it out.

Same question here. What about his behavior is offensive? SM did not even mention behavior in that lengthy post.

J

[B-Fly]

I can understand your attitude toward his means of communication. I can understand it concerning your view of the dignity of the office. I do not understand it concerning his behavior. Apart from his speaking and tweeting, what has he done to offend anyone?


Same question here. What about his behavior is offensive? SM did not even mention behavior in that lengthy post.

J

Public speech, particularly when it's vile and insulting and attacking people, is behavior. Moreover, he has been sued many, many times, and he has lost. See Trump University fraud. He has notoriously stiffed workers and professionals of the amounts they were due, throughout his career. He has been accused of sexual harassment or misconduct by 22 different women. He has obviously cheated on multiple wives. There is credible evidence that he's cheated on his taxes. How can you say that nothing about his behavior is offensive?