President Donald Trump

[Bernie Brewer]

Great post, FS. Brennan is a bad actor and the Dems shouldn’t rush to elevate his opinion because he despises Trump. Lot of more reputable people critiquing the President than this clown.

I agree 100%.

[Sour Masher]

Great post, FS. Brennan is a bad actor and the Dems shouldn’t rush to elevate his opinion because he despises Trump. Lot of more reputable people critiquing the President than this clown.

This is very true, and I too agree. At the same time, like with Jose Canseco with PEDs, the fact that the messenger is a bad actor himself doesn't make his claims not true. But yeah, even though Brennan is an articulate, and I'd argue very accurate, critic of the dangers Trump represent to our American ideals, it is playing on the general public's ignorance of his record and relying instead on the impressiveness of his past positions and his current rhetorical skills in a way that is distasteful, if not uncommon.

[The Feral Slasher]

This is very true, and I too agree. At the same time, like with Jose Canseco with PEDs, the fact that the messenger is a bad actor himself doesn't make his claims not true. But yeah, even though Brennan is an articulate, and I'd argue very accurate, critic of the dangers Trump represent to our American ideals, it is playing on the general public's ignorance of his record and relying instead on the impressiveness of his past positions and his current rhetorical skills in a way that is distasteful, if not uncommon.

We don't need to create fairy tales about people like John Brennan in order to oppose Trump. I'm not sure how it helps.

[Sour Masher]

We don't need to create fairy tales about people like John Brennan in order to oppose Trump. I'm not sure how it helps.

Yes, again, I agree. I was also trying to explain why Brennan has become a popular talking head for the left. 1. He has an impressive resume if you only know of or consider his job titles. 2. He is very articulate and global about his criticisms in a way that comes off as particularly damning given his resume (again, to those who don't know the specifics beyond his job titles). Not saying I agree with it, but it also does not surprise me. It happens a lot. I do think he is dead on accurate when he talks about Trump representing, if we let him, an existential threat to our democracy. But I still don't want him to be the guy delivering the message.

[Bernie Brewer]

Yes, again, I agree. I was also trying to explain why Brennan has become a popular talking head for the left. 1. He has an impressive resume if you only know of or consider his job titles. 2. He is very articulate and global about his criticisms in a way that comes off as particularly damning given his resume (again, to those who don't know the specifics beyond his job titles). Not saying I agree with it, but it also does not surprise me. It happens a lot. I do think he is dead on accurate when he talks about Trump representing, if we let him, an existential threat to our democracy. But I still don't want him to be the guy delivering the message.

Well written.

[The Feral Slasher]

Yes, again, I agree. I was also trying to explain why Brennan has become a popular talking head for the left. 1. He has an impressive resume if you only know of or consider his job titles. 2. He is very articulate and global about his criticisms in a way that comes off as particularly damning given his resume (again, to those who don't know the specifics beyond his job titles). Not saying I agree with it, but it also does not surprise me. It happens a lot. I do think he is dead on accurate when he talks about Trump representing, if we let him, an existential threat to our democracy. But I still don't want him to be the guy delivering the message.

got it. The Trump presidency creates a lot of strange situations and relationships between various groups. I guess it could be called interesting, but I'm just tired of it.

[Hornsby]

I don't think there is anything brilliant about calling Brennan a man of integrity and honesty when anyone paying attention knows it isn't true.

Again, people seem to be missing the forest for the trees...it's not about whether John Brennan is REALLY the most honest and thoughtful man with a security clearance. It's much more to the growing opposition to Trump and his policies, so much so that a 4 star General who oversaw the raid that killed bin Laden, is compelled to publicly come out and challenge the President publicly. It's a growing trend that seems to have a great deal of momentum.

[Sour Masher]

Again, people seem to be missing the forest for the trees...it's not about whether John Brennan is REALLY the most honest and thoughtful man with a security clearance. It's much more to the growing opposition to Trump and his policies, so much so that a 4 star General who oversaw the raid that killed bin Laden, is compelled to publicly come out and challenge the President publicly. It's a growing trend that seems to have a great deal of momentum.

And yet, despite this valid and on point criticism, some of it from just the sort of people his base generally and admirably (puns intended) take pride in respecting, the needle rarely moves with Trump's 40%. I really, really want to know what he needs to say and/or do before some of those folks start to fall off.

[Hornsby]

And yet, despite this valid and on point criticism, some of it from just the sort of people his base generally and admirably (puns intended) take pride in respecting, the needle rarely moves with Trump's 40%. I really, really want to know what he needs to say and/or do before some of those folks start to fall off.

Spot on...I've maintained all along that Trump will likely never deviate from the 40% mark, give or take a few points in either direction. And that is why tying yourself to Trump can be particularly dangerous...do you get that 40% plus 5-10%? Or do people sit at home since it's not Trump on the ballot (midterm election), and you go down in flames.

It'll be really interesting here in the Minnesota Gubernatorial contest, you've got a Trump embracer on the GOP side, hoping for at least one campaign visit, vs. a long sitting, moderate Democrat Congressman who is from greater Minnesota, not the metro area. If Trump has any coattails, it'll show up here pretty clearly, IMO.

[The Feral Slasher]

Again, people seem to be missing the forest for the trees...it's not about whether John Brennan is REALLY the most honest and thoughtful man with a security clearance. It's much more to the growing opposition to Trump and his policies, so much so that a 4 star General who oversaw the raid that killed bin Laden, is compelled to publicly come out and challenge the President publicly. It's a growing trend that seems to have a great deal of momentum.

Well i responded specifically to questions you asked in posts 5213 and 5215. If you want to change the discussion to something else that is great, but don't blame everyone else who disagreed with the specific points you raised. And honestly, establishment politicians, military figures, and intelligence leaders have been against Trump since before he was elected. This really isn't something new. Donald Trump sucks, that doesn't mean that everyone critical of him is someone I'm going to support, or that every lazy argument against him is a good one.

[nots]

And honestly, establishment politicians, military figures, and intelligence leaders have been against Trump since before he was elected. This really isn't something new. Donald Trump sucks, that doesn't mean that everyone critical of him is someone I'm going to support, or that every lazy argument against him is a good one.

Exactly

[Hornsby]

Well i responded specifically to questions you asked in posts 5213 and 5215. If you want to change the discussion to something else that is great, but don't blame everyone else who disagreed with the specific points you raised. And honestly, establishment politicians, military figures, and intelligence leaders have been against Trump since before he was elected. This really isn't something new. Donald Trump sucks, that doesn't mean that everyone critical of him is someone I'm going to support, or that every lazy argument against him is a good one.

Well, they weren't questions, they were statements. So the discussion was never changed by me...my point was simply this: If you want to disagree, fine, but give reasons why you disagree. You them posted an Op-Ed (that would generously be called an article) from a self described Socialist/Anti Capitalist website. OK, I'm probably WAY more liberal than you are, but this one even made me cock my head. No doubt the quotes are accurate, but they were certainly cherry picked.

Brennan isn't a good guy according to many people, I get it. The point was then, and continues to be, the growing, PUBLIC, coming out against him and his policies, people who may have something to lose. Is it self serving by them? Probably, but the point is that leaders from the past several administrations, Republican and Democrat, who have been silent, are not being silent anymore. Not referring to Brennan, but rather the Admiral...14 other former CIA directors and deputy directors from Republican and Democratic administrations, have since publicly stood up to Trump saying that it was an attempt to stifle free speech.

Now I'd guess that not all of these people stood in lockstep with Brennan, but they understand the damage that Trump is doing with his games. That was always the point of the initial post, nothing more, nothing less...

[nullnor]

make the Cayman Islands great again?

i couldn't resist. ..i'm surprised no-one actually thought of that phrase before.

[The Feral Slasher]

Well, they weren't questions, they were statements. So the discussion was never changed by me...my point was simply this: If you want to disagree, fine, but give reasons why you disagree. You them posted an Op-Ed (that would generously be called an article) from a self described Socialist/Anti Capitalist website. OK, I'm probably WAY more liberal than you are, but this one even made me cock my head. No doubt the quotes are accurate, but they were certainly cherry picked.

Brennan isn't a good guy according to many people, I get it. The point was then, and continues to be, the growing, PUBLIC, coming out against him and his policies, people who may have something to lose. Is it self serving by them? Probably, but the point is that leaders from the past several administrations, Republican and Democrat, who have been silent, are not being silent anymore. Not referring to Brennan, but rather the Admiral...14 other former CIA directors and deputy directors from Republican and Democratic administrations, have since publicly stood up to Trump saying that it was an attempt to stifle free speech.

Now I'd guess that not all of these people stood in lockstep with Brennan, but they understand the damage that Trump is doing with his games. That was always the point of the initial post, nothing more, nothing less...

Since you are so fond of giving people advice on clear communication, I'll give you a tip. When you post a quote or link to an article and label it "brilliant" you can expect that others reading it might think you actually endorse or agree with the points made in the article. Apparently that wasn't the case here and I sidetracked the discussion responding to what you actually posted, not what you meant.

[Hornsby]

Since you are so fond of giving people advice on clear communication, I'll give you a tip. When you post a quote or link to an article and label it "brilliant" you can expect that others reading it might think you actually endorse or agree with the points made in the article. Apparently that wasn't the case here and I sidetracked the discussion responding to what you actually posted, not what you meant.

Here's exactly what I wrote...

Brilliant response today by the Admiral who oversaw the raid that killed Osama bin Laden...Admiral William H, McRaven:

Not an endorsement of Brennan, but an endorsement of the Admiral and the 14 others who have come out publicly against Trump policies.

So I would expect others who read it to accept the clarification in the next post. And no, you sidetracked the discussion because that's what people do on the internet...I'm guilty of it myself. I would defy anyone to find a thread that is linear in it's progress, they all go meandering depending on the poster and what he/she desires.