President Donald Trump

[B-Fly]

Thoughts on the Trump/EPA/asbestos stuff?

I'm trying to understand before catastrophizing. What strikes me as troubling out of the gate is the purported new framework for environmental risk assessment under which asbestos-containing products may be approved for use:

According to Fast Company, the EPA’s recently released report detailing its new framework for evaluating the risk of its top prioritized substances states that the agency will “no longer consider the effect or presence of substances in the air, ground, or water in its risk assessments.”

https://archpaper.com/2018/08/epa-asbestos-manufacturing/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/epa-proposal-on-asbestos-critics-outraged/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/is-epa-allowing-asbestos-products/

And then the connection with Trump's own statements about asbestos when he was a landlord/real estate developer:

In his 1997 book The Art of the Comeback, the future president wrote that asbestos is “100 percent safe, once applied,” despite the overwhelming scientific evidence supporting the contrary. Here’s what else Trump had to say about the carcinogen:

“I believe that the movement against asbestos was led by the mob, because it was often mob-related companies that would do the asbestos removal. Great pressure was put on politicians, and as usual, the politicians relented. Millions of truckloads of this incredible fire-proofing material were taken to special ‘dump sites’ and asbestos was replaced by materials that were supposedly safe but couldn’t hold a candle to asbestos in limiting the ravages of fire.”

Trump has also on multiple occasions blamed the collapse of the two World Trade Center towers on the absence of asbestos. In June, All in With Chris Hayes aired a clip of Trump defending the material before Congress in 2005. “A lot of people say that if the World Trade Center had asbestos is wouldn’t have burned down, it’s wouldn’t have melted. OK?,” he said. “A lot of people in my industry think asbestos is the greatest fireproofing material ever made.” Trump went on to compare asbestos to a “heavyweight champion” compared to other building material, which he likened to a “light-weight from high school.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-asbestos-707642/

https://www.newsweek.com/pruitt-trump-asbestos-chemicals-trump-962703

[chancellor]

B-Fly, I have no idea why this decision was made, though I'd agree that asbestos is not in the top ten of materials to be concerned about. The belief about the Twin Towers is bogus, though that asbestos is a superior fire protection material and heat insulator is true. Moreover, the US had not banned all asbestos products before this change; but did ban their use in schools and other buildings that EPA 40 CFR 763 and OSHA 29 CFR 1926 applied to.

Asbestos is dangerous as a dust, and not encapsulated in an insulating material. That said, in industrial settings, it's next to impossible for encapsulating materials not to fail over time, typically in the 15-25 year timeframe.

All that said, I believe it's highly unlikely that asbestos will become a material that's used anymore. It's not cost effective anymore, and I doubt any engineer would take the risk of a product liability lawsuit designing with asbestos at this point. They'd have a very hard time standing against a legal claim of "the hazard could have been designed away by some reasonably economical and available technology".

[B-Fly]

B-Fly, I have no idea why this decision was made, though I'd agree that asbestos is not in the top ten of materials to be concerned about. The belief about the Twin Towers is bogus, though that asbestos is a superior fire protection material and heat insulator is true. Moreover, the US had not banned all asbestos products before this change; but did ban their use in schools and other buildings that EPA 40 CFR 763 and OSHA 29 CFR 1926 applied to.

Asbestos is dangerous as a dust, and not encapsulated in an insulating material. That said, in industrial settings, it's next to impossible for encapsulating materials not to fail over time, typically in the 15-25 year timeframe.

All that said, I believe it's highly unlikely that asbestos will become a material that's used anymore. It's not cost effective anymore, and I doubt any engineer would take the risk of a product liability lawsuit designing with asbestos at this point. They'd have a very hard time standing against a legal claim of "the hazard could have been designed away by some reasonably economical and available technology".

It's just an awful strange thing for the administration to be delving into, but Trump is nothing if not unconventional and it feels like he's got his EPA validating his old beefs as a landlord/developer. Having been responsible for facilities and capital planning for one school district and now working as the internal auditor for the School Construction Authority of the country's largest school district, I well know that asbestos has been a very burdensome and expensive thing for us to have to deal with, and I've been on the other side of phone calls with anxious parents explaining why the school district isn't putting off all other capital priorities to affirmatively tear down walls, pull up floor tiles or unwrap pipes in all of our schools to remove encapsulated/undisturbed asbestos. But the minute we're going to so much as start hammering nails or driving screws into a "hot" wall or pulling out one vinyl asbestos floor tile, we're definitely closing the building to summer programs and employees and doing a thorough removal and remediation.

[Mithrandir]

B-Fly, I have no idea why this decision was made, though I'd agree that asbestos is not in the top ten of materials to be concerned about. The belief about the Twin Towers is bogus, though that asbestos is a superior fire protection material and heat insulator is true. Moreover, the US had not banned all asbestos products before this change; but did ban their use in schools and other buildings that EPA 40 CFR 763 and OSHA 29 CFR 1926 applied to.

Asbestos is dangerous as a dust, and not encapsulated in an insulating material. That said, in industrial settings, it's next to impossible for encapsulating materials not to fail over time, typically in the 15-25 year timeframe.

All that said, I believe it's highly unlikely that asbestos will become a material that's used anymore. It's not cost effective anymore, and I doubt any engineer would take the risk of a product liability lawsuit designing with asbestos at this point. They'd have a very hard time standing against a legal claim of "the hazard could have been designed away by some reasonably economical and available technology".

Simple answer: Because Trump is a fucking douchebag asshole. Not hard to figure out.

[chancellor]

It's just an awful strange thing for the administration to be delving into, but Trump is nothing if not unconventional and it feels like he's got his EPA validating his old beefs as a landlord/developer. Having been responsible for facilities and capital planning for one school district and now working as the internal auditor for the School Construction Authority of the country's largest school district, I well know that asbestos has been a very burdensome and expensive thing for us to have to deal with, and I've been on the other side of phone calls with anxious parents explaining why the school district isn't putting off all other capital priorities to affirmatively tear down walls, pull up floor tiles or unwrap pipes in all of our schools to remove encapsulated/undisturbed asbestos. But the minute we're going to so much as start hammering nails or driving screws into a "hot" wall or pulling out one vinyl asbestos floor tile, we're definitely closing the building to summer programs and employees and doing a thorough removal and remediation.

Well, unless Trump is really Darth Sidious, I don't see his influence on an issue like this. Asbestos has been a battle for five or six presidents back now, with loud pro and anti- groups that have been active for more than 20 years. It's why we've ended up with a hodgepodge of regulations - i.e., in some cases asbestos can not be used in government or school buildings, but can be used in the same industrial setting.

The way you're doing it sure seems right to me. Other than inspections every year, there's no way I'd recommend messing with encapsulated asbestos. You're creating more danger by doing so. And you have to do remediation per OSHA 29 CFR anytime you do have to do a modification that'll touch asbestos.

[B-Fly]

Not that it was particularly revelatory, but the Nunes tape shows how far in the tank many of the GOPers in Congress are to protect the President from the Mueller investigation and its potential consequences, and underscores the significance of who controls the House and Senate following the 2018 midterms.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/secret-recording-shows-gop-s-nunes-saying-rosenstein-impeachment-would-n899031

[revo]

Not that it was particularly revelatory, but the Nunes tape shows how far in the tank many of the GOPers in Congress are to protect the President from the Mueller investigation and its potential consequences, and underscores the significance of who controls the House and Senate following the 2018 midterms.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...-would-n899031

Trying to impeach someone for doing their job without any partisan bent is laughable.

[revo]

He probably saw Jean-Luc Picard coming out of retirement and said "We have to get there before the French!"

[revo]

What a f—-ing hypocrite:

“President Trump has repeatedly and vehemently denounced what he calls “chain migration,” in which adult American citizens can obtain residency for their relatives.

On Thursday, his Slovenian in-laws, Viktor and Amalija Knavs, became United States citizens in a private ceremony in Manhattan by taking advantage of that very program.

Asked if the Knavses had obtained citizenship through “chain migration,” their lawyer, Michael Wildes, said, “I suppose.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/nyregion/melania-trumps-parents-become-us-citizens.html

[Judge Jude]

"they, I assume, are good people."

[hacko]

"they, I assume, are good people."

Or shitholes��

[B-Fly]

To be fair, they are his mother-in-law and father-in-law, so I'm sure the President would have kept them out if he could have gotten away with it, but there are some things against which even a "unitary executive" protected by the likes of Brett Kavanaugh has no immunity.

[Gregg]

To be fair, they are his mother-in-law and father-in-law, so I'm sure the President would have kept them out if he could have gotten away with it, but there are some things against which even a "unitary executive" protected by the likes of Brett Kavanaugh has no immunity.

nicely played.

[Fresno Bob]

immigration rules don't apply to lingerie models!

[B-Fly]

immigration rules don't apply to lingerie models!

I really don't want to see Melania's parents in lingerie.