President Donald Trump

[Hornsby]

I'm with you. My wife watches her, and a lot of MSNBC. I get some of it in passing because of this. I agree with others--she is smart, and I like that the tries to give historical context to contemporary issues. But I just don't like her delivery and style. Her intros last half her show. It takes her forever to make her points, and she sees more passionate about the politics of every issue, rather than the issues.

I remember really being turned off by how unaffected she seemed by Sandy Hook. Maybe she was just being professional, or purposefully focusing on the larger political issues so as not to breakdown thinking about the young lives lost. IDK.

It's a very tough line to walk for an anchor...you're supposed to be delivering facts, without drawing attention to your own beliefs. Now, I know that's really not true anymore with the cable nets, but Maddow had to learn how to do this at a lower level of TV. And maybe that training came out when you were watching the Sandy Hook coverage...

But she did break down on the air not long ago when MSNBC first learned of the detention centers for children...

[Judge Jude]

I'm the opposite - I'm more impressed by the anchor who DOESN'T break down than the one who does.

I'd also rather have an ER team that doesn't see me entering the hospital with an ax in my head and run out yelling, "EW, THAT IS SO GROSS!"

that's what most of us would do. but somebody has to be able to keep their wits about them while most others are losing theirs. anyone who can't do it should step aside for someone who can.

and frankly, if separating young kids from their parents is a bridge too far (and it can be rough to digest), how the hell did she report on hundreds of victims in the Las Vegas massacre, for instance? was there no tragedy there worthy of breaking down over? which set of children suffered more - the ones at the border, or the ones who will grow up without ever seeing their parent again thanks to that maniac in Las Vegas?

where does it end?

[Hornsby]

I'm the opposite - I'm more impressed by the anchor who DOESN'T break down than the one who does.

I'd also rather have an ER team that doesn't see me entering the hospital with an ax in my head and run out yelling, "EW, THAT IS SO GROSS!"

that's what most of us would do. but somebody has to be able to keep their wits about them while most others are losing theirs. anyone who can't do it should step aside for someone who can.

and frankly, if separating young kids from their parents is a bridge too far (and it can be rough to digest), how the hell did she report on hundreds of victims in the Las Vegas massacre, for instance? was there no tragedy there worthy of breaking down over? which set of children suffered more - the ones at the border, or the ones who will grow up without ever seeing their parent again thanks to that maniac in Las Vegas?

where does it end?

I think that everyone has a different trigger, a breaking point if you will. I know that mine is probably a lot different than many other people, so I can't be the one to determine what is going to make another person crack. Who knows, maybe it was the sheer volume of doing these stories day after day, month after month, year after year. Eventually, all of that bad news has to take an emotional toll, IMO.

Maddow even said as much in a tweet following that show:

Ugh, I'm sorry.

If nothing else, it is my job to actually be able to speak while I'm on TV.

What I was trying to do -- when I suddenly couldn't say/do anything -- was read this lede:

"Trump administration officials have been sending babies and other young children forcibly separated from their parents to at least three “tender age” shelters in South Texas...

[Judge Jude]

well, given Maddow's screwup on the Putin-Trump transcript, it sure looks like that border issue hit her harder because of Trump.
like I said, that's a rough story to digest, once you empathize with a bunch of terrified kids who might not see their parents for weeks.

and I WISH we lived in a world where that was close to the worst that anyone - especially children - ever suffer.
but we don't, so that being the trigger just seems ... off.

I should add that of course the former is being done by our government, and the other by a madman - and that is a critical difference.

but we're also not comparing murder counts, either. the kids orphaned by the Las Vegas killer don't get any solace from the fact that the government was not involved. their parent is still dead. they deserved empathy, too.

UPDATE: After last night's "fake news" story that led her program, Maddow of course tonight kicked off her show with a mea culpa.

I'm just kidding - the first 20 minutes were her reading from a transcript of that female Russian who is in hot water these days. #sad

[gcstomp]

the forcible separation of border children from their parents hit me harder than most anything i can think of, and it is because it was govt. sponsored, a Trump created travesty with deeper underlying meaning of what it means to now be an american, and no longer having it mean we are a shining beacon.

to review, thousands of children forcibly torn from parents, these are families fleeing countries where they were running for their lives and in some cases took a month plus journey to get into country. though if de-humanize them and call them illegals.... and many young children have been separated for many months now. still, now, more than 2000 children have not be united, almost 500 children cant be reunited as parents have already been sent back to hostile country, so children have been effectively kidnapped from parents. for the 1st time in our country 250 year history we have had children as young as 2 years old forced to stand alone in court, with no representation, absurdity the stuff of a dark comedy. toddler detention camps overfilled, a dark period in our history for sure but as it is just one of daily outrages that someone could focus on, its so easy to move on.

maddow presented a story of what seemed to be deliberate cut/paste of what we all could see in the helsinki disaster, we heard the reporter ask question, we saw putin answer. the transcripts of what we all could see/hear was changed with omission that it was later learned that the audio feed "failed" or did not switch over and so maybe putin wasnt answering that question.

this is not a major level of fail i would have called out. literally every single day, trump lies, in shocking ways, and has created a paradigm where he demands that what you see and hear is not to be trusted, only he holds truth, orwellian stuff. maddow made an error, clearly not deliberate, any spectator could witness reporter question, but spectator could not be privy to earpiece connection failing on that feed. one is error, and a rare one from someone who goes thru great detail in building context on daily reports and is exposing a dystopian breakdown in government.

the other is a stream of lies from a president that may or may not recognize difference between reality and the miasma chamber he trapped himself in by getting his entire world view fed to him via fox in 6 hour chunks in private residence at start of every day.

[Judge Jude]

ugh. I FFd thru the DVR, and at the 50-minute mark, she doubled down.
mentioned and dismissed The Washington Post "speculation" about a technical issue, focusing instead on the White House "finally admitting" that the transcript is missing a Q/A.
they claim the official record is going to "the archivist," but Maddow notes - I assume accurately - that the video on the official site still doesn't have it. she smugged the hell out of it.

(only consolation is that in the prior segment, a former colleague of mine who always HATED doing TV survived the segment. she wobbled at first, but I don't think very noticeable to the casual viewer.)

.....................

"for the 1st time in our country 250 year history we have had children as young as 2 years old forced to stand alone in court, with no representation, absurdity the stuff of a dark comedy."

sorry, that is fake news. a lot of Trump claims of "it happened under Obama, too" are false. but so is your claim. it did happen under Obama (just not as often, I believe).

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/children-immigration-court-deportation-attorney/

"As the White House faces court orders to reunite families separated at the border, immigrant children as young as 3 are being ordered into court for their own deportation proceedings, according to attorneys in Texas, California and Washington, D.C.

Requiring unaccompanied minors to go through deportation alone is not a new practice. But in the wake of the Trump administration’s controversial family separation policy, more young children — including toddlers — are being affected than in the past. The 2,000-plus separated children will likely need to deal with court proceedings even as they grapple with the ongoing trauma of being taken from their parents.

This report prompted inquiries from multiple skeptical and concerned readers asking us if it was true.

The referenced practice does occur today and has taken place for years. We spoke with immigration attorneys who confirmed that immigrant children subject to deportation or asylum hearings are not entitled to court-appointed lawyers, and they recalled having represented clients as young as two and three years old."

"n 2014, the American Immigration Council, the American Civil Liberties Union, and other non-profit organizations sued the U.S. government for alleged violations of the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment and the Immigration and Nationality Act, demanding that immigrant children be given court-appointed free legal aid in immigration proceedings.

Thsee organizations brought suit (J.E.F.M. v. Holder/F.L.B. v. Lynch) on behalf of fourteen immigrant children (some as young as four, three, or even one year old), all of whom were facing deportation hearings, before the case was certified as a class action and the group of plaintiffs expanded to thousands of children in similar circumstances."

............

(Snopes calls out plenty of Trump's lies, too - you can literally look it up there.)

[Sour Masher]

It's a very tough line to walk for an anchor...you're supposed to be delivering facts, without drawing attention to your own beliefs. Now, I know that's really not true anymore with the cable nets, but Maddow had to learn how to do this at a lower level of TV. And maybe that training came out when you were watching the Sandy Hook coverage...

But she did break down on the air not long ago when MSNBC first learned of the detention centers for children...

This is funny--this is the exact same clip my wife referred me to in response to my feelings about her. The fact that you both reference the same clip makes me think she does not break like this very often. Based on yours and JJ's feedback, I understand how that is a GOOD thing for a journalist. Maybe that part of my critique of her is unfair. I certainly don't want my news people to break into tears all the time. At the same time, her discussions around Sandy Hook just seemed so cold and detached, and focused on wonky policy issues rather than shock/sadness/rage. In light of how she has handled other bad stories, like JJ, I'm surprised this is the issue that made her break. But as you point out, there is a larger context, a cumulative effect. Maybe it was evocative of other stories, when she hit the word babies. I get that.

IDK. Maybe it's cuz I have to read so many damn student papers that begin with the history of the universe for three pages before they get to the point, but those loong intros lose me, even though, again, I appreciate the general desire to want to connect current events to historical context. I also get how conservatives find her smug--I see it. But on that front, I think she is tame compared to the Tucker Carlson's and Sean Hannity's of the field, and more informed and well-researched in her opinions.

[gcstomp]

snopes is a solid tool. i use it constantly. as you copy/pasted, the claim though unbelievable, that children as young as 2 had to stand alone in court without representation, is labeled as true. what part is fake news? ah, my 1st time in history children are having to endure this absurdity part. i have in earnest been trying to find similar cases from pre trump era, if i am wrong in that part and we find older case this happened, then this is fake news? you feel i should say "Trump has taken a stance mirrored by previous Presidents like Obama and accelerated it to a degree that I consider far more heinous.

if we ignore that jeff sessions stood up and announced a zero tolerance policy and there has been a seismic shift in how we are handling border crossings then your statement seems fair. i do not think your canned statement is a fair portrayal of what is currently happening on a daily basis. prior admins had a hard line on criminal activity deportations, this new zero tolerance policy is a different animal. to you, the maddow incident was worthy of condemnation, i see literally every day more substantial failings from trump. am i wrong in that maddow made an error, not a lie, and trump is on a daily basis lying. this is substantial difference, no?

[gcstomp]

i am ok with how vanilla my fb feed is, my family, coworkers, friends read that so make sure it is vanilla. i havent posted anything in literally years other than observing happy birthdays, or congrats on new baby, graduations, promotions, plus the biggie seems to be fb friends post pics of food, vacation spots? we know politics on fb is a virus, manipulated bits, and it resulted in tremendous harm. that vortex is simple to avoid.

[Judge Jude]

i am ok with how vanilla my fb feed is, my family, coworkers, friends read that so make sure it is vanilla. i havent posted anything in literally years other than observing happy birthdays, or congrats on new baby, graduations, promotions, plus the biggie seems to be fb friends post pics of food, vacation spots? we know politics on fb is a virus, manipulated bits, and it resulted in tremendous harm. that vortex is simple to avoid.

sounds like you are a wise man!
and to the extent that I assumed you shared your sentiments on social media, I will say that I was wrong about that.

as for the other part:

"for the 1st time in our country 250 year history we have had children as young as 2 years old forced to stand alone in court, with no representation, absurdity the stuff of a dark comedy."

if you meant that as a condemnation of Obama AND Trump, it didn't come across that way (and I don't know that it started under Obama. once a parent with a young child tries to cross illegally, I'm not sure exactly what border patrol is supposed to do - neither was Obama. there are stories where, if you didn't know better, you'd swear that Trump was crossing the border and rounding up families who were just sitting home watching TV together. which is not to say that I don't understand why they roll the dice).
and yes, it has accelerated to a huge degree under Trump.
and yes, Trump lies all the time.

we know that.
when Maddow loses her mind and cannot even admit her error, we all fall further down the rabbit hole.
it's crucial for her to get it together.

[gcstomp]

i am definitely sorting thru my own baggage regarding this forced separation of children, infants from families trying to cross border, and some 500 children being locked in system with parent already deported. it feels beyond wrong to me, feels like govt sanction crime. i had a cousin who was a border patrol agent who committed suicide maybe 10 years ago, maybe i am irrationally blowing the wrong stuff up in my head on whats terrible and next level historically terrible here. i certainly woudnt elect myself to an office as i am too emotional at times.

[cardboardbox]

if you didn't know better, you'd swear that Trump was crossing the border and rounding up families who were just sitting home watching TV together

wait, didnt he do that?

[Judge Jude]

i am definitely sorting thru my own baggage regarding this forced separation of children, infants from families trying to cross border, and some 500 children being locked in system with parent already deported. it feels beyond wrong to me, feels like govt sanction crime. i had a cousin who was a border patrol agent who committed suicide maybe 10 years ago, maybe i am irrationally blowing the wrong stuff up in my head on whats terrible and next level historically terrible here. i certainly woudnt elect myself to an office as i am too emotional at times.

I am truly sorry for your loss, and I will try to be more empathetic on this front in the future.
my goal is always to realize that I don't know what I don't know - but sometimes I fall short, as here.

[TranaGreg]

oh well; I guess it was nice to think of what could have been ...

North Korea’s Ruling Party Informs Officials Kim Regime Will Not Give Up Nukes

The Central Committee of the ruling Workers’ Party has decreed that North Korea will not relinquish its nuclear arsenal, which it termed a “precious legacy” of the country’s late leaders, according to local sources, despite an earlier pledge by party chairman Kim Jong Un to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula.

[In the Corn]

oh well; I guess it was nice to think of what could have been ...

North Korea’s Ruling Party Informs Officials Kim Regime Will Not Give Up Nukes

I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya.

No doubt it is time for some Fire and Fury! (in Donald's mind).