President Donald Trump

[Bernie Brewer]

I post this link with little additional comment other than I like the way US Ambassador to Russia Huntsman responds to an editorial by a Salt Lake Times op ed writer who called for him to resign. Keeping things in perspective even though I felt that Trump screwed the pooch in Helsinki.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/07/...sador-huntsman

I respect you as an opinion writer and therefore feel compelled to respond. I’ve been around politics long enough to understand the moment we face and the legitimate arguments on all sides. In fact, I regularly advocate in a hostile environment for the very values that allow us to have this conversation. In our republic, your job is key. It is to outrage, occasionally illuminate, and sometimes inspire with provocative, attention-grabbing headlines. My job is a very different one.

[swampdragon]

Helsinki does not require defending. It was a landmark event that will redefine US-Europe relations for the next generation.

Or not.

We will see. I am pretty sure it was not a bad thing and it could be the start of a long-term policy shift.

J

Why are you pretty sure?

exhibit A - it is impossible to use logic/sense with a Trump supporter

[Hornsby]

Why are you pretty sure?

exhibit A - it is impossible to use logic/sense with a Trump supporter

LOL...we have NO idea what was talked about in that private meeting that lasted over an hour, absolutely none at all.

[cardboardbox]

I post this link with little additional comment other than I like the way US Ambassador to Russia Huntsman responds to an editorial by a Salt Lake Times op ed writer who called for him to resign. Keeping things in perspective even though I felt that Trump screwed the pooch in Helsinki.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/07/...sador-huntsman

Thanks for posting this. I'll never understand why people quit because things arent going their way. I didnt like when Gary Cohn quit because Trump started with the tariffs. He should have stayed right where he was and kept advising so Trump could hear the other side of the argument. Thumbs up for Huntsman!

[nullnor]

except for supporting republican policies, Huntsman would've made a fine president. the guy is thoughtful.

[Sour Masher]

except for supporting republican policies, Huntsman would've made a fine president. the guy is thoughtful.

I agree--accept for his entire political ideology, he would have been great! .

Sincerely, it is good to have someone with his intelligence and integrity stick around this admin. I can see both sides--I understand why some cannot serve in good conscience such and admin, and I see why those like Huntsman see it as a necessity.

[cardboardbox]

except for supporting republican policies, Huntsman would've made a fine president. the guy is thoughtful.

he was my 1st choice in 2012. Unfortunately he didnt get many votes...

[Teenwolf]

Thanks for posting this. I'll never understand why people quit because things arent going their way. I didnt like when Gary Cohn quit because Trump started with the tariffs. He should have stayed right where he was and kept advising so Trump could hear the other side of the argument. Thumbs up for Huntsman!

I'll be honest. I've been torn on the issue of whether or not various people in Trump's admin should resign or not. I've heard the argument you and Bernie are making, and found it somewhat persuasive in the past... but I think this situation requires extreme measures. I believe resigning is the only power these advisors have, with the built-in excuse "I'm an advisor, and the person I'm advising has lost my confidence." It also insulates them from the sinking ship that is the Trump admin, so it would be a wise career move... I just think they don't see the iceberg quite yet, but there could be a day (maybe the Mueller findings drop in 2019, with Dems controlling House & Senate) when the lifeboats go out, and everybody boards. Just my take though!

Trey Gowdy was on Fox News today with Bret Baier, saying they should all consider resigning. Despite my loathing of Gowdy in general, he makes a pretty compelling argument.

"The President has access to every bit of evidence... even more than those of us on House Intel... He has access to Pompeo, and Chris Wray, and Dan Coates, and Nikki Haley. The evidence is overwhelming. It can be proven beyond any evidenciary burden that Russia is not our friend and that they tried to attack us in 2016. So the President either needs to rely on the people that he has chosen to advise him, or those advisors need to re-evaluate whether they can serve in this administration. But the disconnect cannot continue. The evidence is overwhelming, and the President needs to say that and act like it."

[DMT]

I think they'd have to resign en masse to really make a statement.

[Teenwolf]

Bernie Brewer asked 20ish pages back "why the hell do you care so much about US politics", and it's a good question, one my wife asks me all of the time. I know it must annoy many here to listen to a Canadian Bernie Bro all the time, so I'll give my take. I genuinely appreciate the commentary here for the insight into real people's opinions on what the hell is going on. In order of importance:

1 - Global shift towards fascism - Basically, it's bigger than Trump. All over the world, far right parties veering towards fascism, promoting anti-immigrant fear-mongering, etc, are politically ascendant throughout Europe (Italy, Hungary, United Kingdom, France was very close... Germany is very close... you get the idea.) This is terrifying on a global scale because Trump literally supports all of the worst dictators... he praises them. He comments that he wishes he had the type of power they have. It's so disturbing. Now that a new US/Russia alliance has been formed in secret, who the hell knows what Trump is planning militarily. Does that sound like a Democracy to you? The leader holds a 2 hour meeting with the only American being the damn translator... I want peace with Russia too, but these aren't negotiations being held, they're indoctrination sessions, and it's pathetic that anybody defends it. With Trump's instability, lack of regard for advisors, and his vulnerability to foreign influence... it's all pretty concerning with the scope of the US military. Oh... not to mention his comments about killing the families of terrorists, that one needs to be addressed at some point.

2 - Environmental ramifications - Essentially, ending environmental protections unilaterally in support of some vague industry efficiencies is selling out the environment in a time of crisis. I plan on living a lot longer than many of the folks here. I'm a 35 year old vegan, I'll likely have to watch another 50-70 years of this global environmental devastation. I'm going to watch as the ocean becomes a 100% dead zone. There's less than half of the animals on the planet there were 50 years ago. Dropping out of the Paris Climate Agreement is akin to global terrorism. Supporters of the Trump admin environmental policy deserve a giant Captain Planet sized fist up the keister.

3 - Hope for true progressive takeover - I see public policy polling on many issues (corruption/money in politics, living wages, health care, gun control, abortion, etc.) containing many issues that progressives dominate the centrists on. A poll just came out showing that Democrats lead on the issue of corruption, even when polling Republicans in Republican held districts! The secret is out, running on "getting money out of politics" is a winning campaign idea. Nancy Pelosi represents the fundraiser class of the Dems, and they're no longer needed. She's lost the party 1000 seats across different levels of government in the last decade! It's not working!

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign...s-more-corrupt

4 - Canada is in it's Obama-disillusionment stage - Trudeau is the great disappointment, and it will likely lead to a scary conservative leader in 2019, given our left is split between 2 parties... but we always follow the US, so I could see a Bernie/Warren 2020 win leading Canada along a similar path. But that's my 4th biggest priority.

5 - Dammit, I wanna travel in the US - You've got some pretty cool places. I love so many places along the west coast... I still want to visit my friends in New York... would love to take the kiddo down to Valley Fair in Minneapolis... but I'm not gonna spend 1 damn dollar visiting while under this Trump era. Not until the rats crawl back into their holes.

Those are the main reasons that I follow the US political landscape so closely. Developed the interest as an 18 yr old, when a teacher used to show us the previous night's news on VHS, then pause to discuss anything we wanted. Continued through my university years, where my professors were giving us the real deal on all the BS being pumped out about the Iraq war effort... so just seeing how much the US continues to lie to advance a global war agenda... seems kinda important to keep an eye on.

[cavebird]

I cannot comment on politics because of my current job (all partisan and non-partisan political activity violates ethical rules), but I do have to comment just to note the irony of someone expecting to live to possibly 105 years old in one thread and also starting a psychedelic drugs thread.

Also, is there any research indicating that vegans live longer than others (assuming all other factors, like psychedelic drugs, are equal)? I am curious. Not sure if one could separate the factors given the inability to control other variables (genetics, bad habits (alcohol, cigs, etc.).

[revo]

i don't think a man can be a fiscal conservative and social liberal. like they says it's all about the economy. i think economic policy shapes social issues more than anything else. for example, i think abortion is more about birth rates than morality a person could call an alligator a lizard.

Totally disagree. All my college friends, on either side of the political spectrum (and most are GOPers), are socially liberal. You can be socially liberal no matter which side of the aisle you’re on.

[Teenwolf]

I cannot comment on politics because of my current job (all partisan and non-partisan political activity violates ethical rules), but I do have to comment just to note the irony of someone expecting to live to possibly 105 years old in one thread and also starting a psychedelic drugs thread.

Also, is there any research indicating that vegans live longer than others (assuming all other factors, like psychedelic drugs, are equal)? I am curious. Not sure if one could separate the factors given the inability to control other variables (genetics, bad habits (alcohol, cigs, etc.).

Psychedelic drugs won't impact longevity. Timothy Leary, 75... William S. Burroughs, 83... Albert Hoffman, 102... I'm not convinced.

Vegans are virtually heart attack proof, no diabetes, no gout, no erectile dysfunction, much less likely to develop many forms of cancer, particularly colon cancer etc... I'm sure luck and genetics play a part, but I like my chances of breaking 100 better than most. My physically active career should help too.

I wish Trump would prove my dietary beliefs right though... no idea how his heart hasn't exploded yet.

[gcstomp]

might be fun to start a thread regarding diet types. while this reply doesnt fit into Trump thread, hey we are over 500+ pages so I think we can kitchen sink this beast and do whatever.

its optimistic to project oneself to live to be 100+, but we certainly do have control over factors, primarily diet, that will impact chances.

I have been struggling lately with ethical issues regarding eating meat, primarily beef and pork. We have so distanced ourselves from our food, we dont think that we are talking about cows and pigs led crying into slaughter. A pig has cognitive awareness of a 3 year old child, it knows fear, it has feelings, and there are a bunch of disturbing issues I could bring up before I get censored here. How pig dna is so close to human genome sequence, how a century ago cannibal pacific islanders who waged war among themselves described enemy as the long pig, consuming human flesh is nearly identical in texture, taste to eating human. In weapon testing the animal chosen is pig because it is most similar to human. This is all perverse, better to just not think about, and refer to what you eat as beef and pork, and not sentient animals suffering.

As far as longevity, there are plenty of data points that the sat fat of beef and pork lead to the high rates of heart disease in americans. As far as I can tell, eating fish is healthy. What is someone who doesnt eat beef and pork but eats fish, that isnt vegetarian, its possible humans will slowly move more towards that diet not just from ethical standpoint but health issues.

[In the Corn]

Bernie Brewer asked 20ish pages back "why the hell do you care so much about US politics", and it's a good question, one my wife asks me all of the time. I know it must annoy many here to listen to a Canadian Bernie Bro all the time, so I'll give my take. I genuinely appreciate the commentary here for the insight into real people's opinions on what the hell is going on. In order of importance:

1 - Global shift towards fascism - Basically, it's bigger than Trump. All over the world, far right parties veering towards fascism, promoting anti-immigrant fear-mongering, etc, are politically ascendant throughout Europe (Italy, Hungary, United Kingdom, France was very close... Germany is very close... you get the idea.) This is terrifying on a global scale because Trump literally supports all of the worst dictators... he praises them. He comments that he wishes he had the type of power they have. It's so disturbing. Now that a new US/Russia alliance has been formed in secret, who the hell knows what Trump is planning militarily. Does that sound like a Democracy to you? The leader holds a 2 hour meeting with the only American being the damn translator... I want peace with Russia too, but these aren't negotiations being held, they're indoctrination sessions, and it's pathetic that anybody defends it. With Trump's instability, lack of regard for advisors, and his vulnerability to foreign influence... it's all pretty concerning with the scope of the US military. Oh... not to mention his comments about killing the families of terrorists, that one needs to be addressed at some point.

2 - Environmental ramifications - Essentially, ending environmental protections unilaterally in support of some vague industry efficiencies is selling out the environment in a time of crisis. I plan on living a lot longer than many of the folks here. I'm a 35 year old vegan, I'll likely have to watch another 50-70 years of this global environmental devastation. I'm going to watch as the ocean becomes a 100% dead zone. There's less than half of the animals on the planet there were 50 years ago. Dropping out of the Paris Climate Agreement is akin to global terrorism. Supporters of the Trump admin environmental policy deserve a giant Captain Planet sized fist up the keister.

3 - Hope for true progressive takeover - I see public policy polling on many issues (corruption/money in politics, living wages, health care, gun control, abortion, etc.) containing many issues that progressives dominate the centrists on. A poll just came out showing that Democrats lead on the issue of corruption, even when polling Republicans in Republican held districts! The secret is out, running on "getting money out of politics" is a winning campaign idea. Nancy Pelosi represents the fundraiser class of the Dems, and they're no longer needed. She's lost the party 1000 seats across different levels of government in the last decade! It's not working!

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign...s-more-corrupt

4 - Canada is in it's Obama-disillusionment stage - Trudeau is the great disappointment, and it will likely lead to a scary conservative leader in 2019, given our left is split between 2 parties... but we always follow the US, so I could see a Bernie/Warren 2020 win leading Canada along a similar path. But that's my 4th biggest priority.

5 - Dammit, I wanna travel in the US - You've got some pretty cool places. I love so many places along the west coast... I still want to visit my friends in New York... would love to take the kiddo down to Valley Fair in Minneapolis... but I'm not gonna spend 1 damn dollar visiting while under this Trump era. Not until the rats crawl back into their holes.

Those are the main reasons that I follow the US political landscape so closely. Developed the interest as an 18 yr old, when a teacher used to show us the previous night's news on VHS, then pause to discuss anything we wanted. Continued through my university years, where my professors were giving us the real deal on all the BS being pumped out about the Iraq war effort... so just seeing how much the US continues to lie to advance a global war agenda... seems kinda important to keep an eye on.

Thanks for the response. A couple of thoughts:

1 - Global shift towards fascism - Aren't many of these countries that you name in fear of the Muslim-herd? That seems to be a thread that runs threw so many of these countries. Couldn't we make a case that fascism/nationalism/"culturalism" is a huge problem in the Middle East and the reaction in Europe and North America is a case of not wanting to see that happen where they live, and the irony being they are doing the exact same thing to foreigners and those from other cultures.

2 - Environmental ramifications - I completely agree with you that the US opting out of this, even if they don't see the benefit, sends a bad message about not being a collaborator with the rest of the world. We should be a leader in this area, but it won't happen with Trump (or any Republican in the WH).

3 - Hope for true progressive takeover - I think the issue in the US, and potentially globally, is the pendulum has been swinging too far right and then too far left for far too long. We need someone who is a centrist that really feels where the majority of people are at. The reason it doesn't happen is the two major parties continue to run to the extremes which leaves the middle with little voice, other than making the swing every 8 years, because it seems a given that every President these days gets two terms. (I hope that ends in 2020.)

4 - Canada is in it's Obama-disillusionment stage - I have to say I never understood the love affair with Trudeau.

5 - Dammit, I wanna travel in the US - Please bring your tourism dollars. Minneapolis/St. Paul has lots to do. If you're just coming for Valleyfair, please do your kids a favor and drive to Sandusky, Ohio and go to Cedar Point.