President Donald Trump

[Bernie Brewer]

do I need to find a tiny melting snowman because you’re hot and pissy lately for your avatar?

fify. Done.

[onejayhawk]

Isn't this where Elsa remakes you with a wave of her hand? I should let it go.

BTW What happened to the carrot?

J

[GwynnInTheHall]

It's pretty damning that I hear the same justification (we got our SCOTUS) for continually supporting this buffoon that we got from the Penn State supporters who thought a few wins were worth little boys getting buggered in the ass, Yeah if you still support this ignoramus, you're complicit in his buggery. Trump needs to go, if you don't think so--then you're Ok with all the bad shit he does so that you might fetch a few ducats in your 401K or a swing vote on a court.

But hey, y'all keep doing you and fuck the rest of the reasonable world.

[Hornsby]

It's pretty damning that I hear the same justification (we got our SCOTUS) for continually supporting this buffoon that we got from the Penn State supporters who thought a few wins were worth little boys getting buggered in the ass, Yeah if you still support this ignoramus, you're complicit in his buggery. Trump needs to go, if you don't think so--then you're Ok with all the bad shit he does so that you might fetch a few ducats in your 401K or a swing vote on a court.

But hey, y'all keep doing you and fuck the rest of the reasonable world.

Ya know, interesting that you showed up today. I was thinking yesterday about your contention that we needed a true chaos event to get things back in order for this country, and damn if that's not exactly what we got. We'll see if the GOP comes around and actually grows a backbone to stand up to Trump, or cowers as usual when he barks at them.

Anyway, good vision on the crystal ball there, hell of a call.

[Bernie Brewer]

Isn't this where Elsa remakes you with a wave of her hand? I should let it go.

BTW What happened to the carrot?

J

Just let it go! The Dems finally got the carrot.

[Bernie Brewer]

Sour Masher,

I’m afraid I can’t help you sleep well at night. I wish I could. I wish I could sleep better, as well.

In response to your final exam (essay format) questions, first and foremost, know that yesterday was a real game changer for me. I suspect it was for many others who weren't exactly sure how to quantify or fully articulate their thoughts on Trump, in particular, and on the state of the current GOP, in general. My thoughts on Trump became much clearer yesterday. I’m (probably foolishly) hoping that the GOP will react in a way that will make me proud; by doing what they should to protect our Country, even over their own party politics. I really want to go back home, but I can’t until they prove to me that the welcome mat is out, the front door light is on, and that the journey was worth it.

As for Trump, while I’ve never liked the man, personally, what Trump did yesterday, as the leader of the free world and as our President, was unbelievable. It was heartbreaking and deeply disappointing. It was unconscionable. It was unprecedented. It was un-American! He fawned over our nation's greatest threat and an enemy that attempted to attack us. So, I'm ready. I want this to end now. I’d support a Democrat led impeachment process, if they could muster the courage to do it. I’d be willing to bet some of the retiring GOPers could get behind this. When Trump choose to take that moment, in which nearly every level-headed American wanted to see him take a hard stand and a figurative swing at Putin, but instead he acquiesced and showed his belly, that did it for me. You guys were right all along. No kidding, my heart sank. WTF!

I’ve tried answering you questions, but my heart is no longer in it. I can’t defend the un-defendable.

After writing pages of responses, struggling to convince myself that I could honestly answer your questions, I am left to conclude, that at the risk of completely copping out at least for now, I simply can’t.

Here’s what I will say. I am afraid for our Country. I’ve alluded to this before, but I truly fear for our future. I don’t know where we go from here. Diving in the mud with a pig so you can be on his level just doesn’t seem to be the answer, at least not to me. And, yes, that's what I believe that many on the left have largely done. They dove in, head first. Trump took the extreme right there with him, and many of the blind right as well! Maybe it’s an age thing, or if it’s a byproduct of difficult issues I am facing in my own life, but regardless, it seems to me that everyone is so angry. Everyone is slinging mud and wallowing in it. And, I am right there, too! Shame on all of us!

I just became a grandfather a few days ago and, like you with your infant son, I want the world to be a better place for her than it was when I found it. I don’t believe either political party guarantees that. So, I worry what the world will be like for her, and for your sons, and their children. The anger and hatred is easy, use of labels, like racist, homophobe, fascist, etc. is lazy. I’m sorry that I haven’t swayed or challenged your opinions in these threads. If I post in the future, I’ll strive to do better.

One thing I am sure of, is that we can all do better.

I’ll hang up and listen (at least for awhile!).

Bernie

[B-Fly]

Thanks, Bernie. Your post makes me simultaneously anxious and hopeful, if that's not an oxymoron. I too hope that Democrats and Republicans of conscience can work together here.

Congrats on your granddaughter!

[revo]

Bernie Baby!! Welcome aboard!

Congrats on becoming a Grampa!


I don't want to see an impeachment hearing. That would tear the country apart far more than Dopey Donald already has. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but it's time for the GOP to pressure him to resign. I'd be behind Mike Pence for the next couple of years. Let's do this!

[B-Fly]

Bernie Baby!! Welcome aboard!

Congrats on becoming a Grampa!


I don't want to see an impeachment hearing. That would tear the country apart far more than Dopey Donald already has. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but it's time for the GOP to pressure him to resign. I'd be behind Mike Pence for the next couple of years. Let's do this!

I'm torn on this. I agree with you that an impeachment proceeding risks tearing the country apart. But I don't see Trump as likely to be moved by pressure from GOP leadership to resign. If anything, I suspect that would cause him to dig in his heels. Maybe if they got together and announced that they will protect the independence and access of Mueller investigation, will not support Trump's re-election, and will begin discussions to identify another candidate or candidates to encourage to run and to hopefully nominate instead of Trump in 2020.

[gcstomp]

Bernie, I strongly disagree with you plenty of the time. Just the very way we communicate is so different that I can discern we live in virtually different realities where almost every sentence uttered is construed in a slightly different way between the 2 of us. But I agree that there is just a different kind of ugly anger on both sides unlike prior admins. Its not good, hows that for understatement. To me there feels like a slow moving dangerous collision, and I worry as well for future.

[Sour Masher]

Soul Masher,

I’m afraid I can’t help you sleep well at night. I wish I could. I wish I could sleep better, as well.

In response to your final exam (essay format) questions, first and foremost, know that yesterday was a real game changer for me. I suspect it was for many others who weren't exactly sure how to quantify or fully articulate their thoughts on Trump, in particular, and on the state of the current GOP, in general. My thoughts on Trump became much clearer yesterday. I’m (probably foolishly) hoping that the GOP will react in a way that will make me proud; by doing what they should to protect our Country, even over their own party politics. I really want to go back home, but I can’t until they prove to me that the welcome mat is out, the front door light is on, and that the journey was worth it.

As for Trump, while I’ve never liked the man, personally, what Trump did yesterday, as the leader of the free world and as our President, was unbelievable. It was heartbreaking and deeply disappointing. It was unconscionable. It was unprecedented. It was un-American! He fawned over our nation's greatest threat and an enemy that attempted to attack us. So, I'm ready. I want this to end now. I’d support a Democrat led impeachment process, if they could muster the courage to do it. I’d be willing to bet some of the retiring GOPers could get behind this. When Trump choose to take that moment, in which nearly every level-headed American wanted to see him take a hard stand and a figurative swing at Putin, but instead he acquiesced and showed his belly, that did it for me. You guys were right all along. No kidding, my heart sank. WTF!

I’ve tried answering you questions, but my heart is no longer in it. I can’t defend the un-defendable.

After writing pages of responses, struggling to convince myself that I could honestly answer your questions, I am left to conclude, that at the risk of completely copping out at least for now, I simply can’t.

Here’s what I will say. I am afraid for our Country. I’ve alluded to this before, but I truly fear for our future. I don’t know where we go from here. Diving in the mud with a pig so you can be on his level just doesn’t seem to be the answer, at least not to me. And, yes, that's what I believe that many on the left have largely done. They dove in, head first. Trump took the extreme right there with him, and many of the blind right as well! Maybe it’s an age thing, or if it’s a byproduct of difficult issues I am facing in my own life, but regardless, it seems to me that everyone is so angry. Everyone is slinging mud and wallowing in it. And, I am right there, too! Shame on all of us!

I just became a grandfather a few days ago and, like you with your infant son, I want the world to be a better place for her than it was when I found it. I don’t believe either political party guarantees that. So, I worry what the world will be like for her, and for your sons, and their children. The anger and hatred is easy, use of labels, like racist, homophobe, fascist, etc. is lazy. I’m sorry that I haven’t swayed or challenged your opinions in these threads. If I post in the future, I’ll strive to do better.

One thing I am sure of, is that we can all do better.

I’ll hang up and listen (at least for awhile!).

Bernie

Bernie, first, congrats on being a grandpa!

Second, your post will make me sleep better at not and did move me. I think I understand why you've pushed back on the vitrol against Trump in this thread. You think it is unhealthy, and with that I agree. I sincerely hope, for you, for me, for this country, and our children and their children, that we can move forward to a better future and a better way. One that embraces the core values most of us share. I hope we can have respectful, spirited debates about issues, but with knowledge that those we disagree with want what we want--a better country, a better world, for all--but disagree with how to get there. I hope the Republican party can turn back from the wrong path they have gone down in raising up Trump to be their leader, our leader. This is a fight for the soul of the Republican party, and for the soul of America, and for all of our sakes, I hope those within the party who are good, smart, compassionate, tough, righteous people will fight to expel the fox in their hen house. They are the ones who have to lead this charge, and I hope this moment, just as it swayed you, sways them to do the right thing. And the right thing is to admit, like some are now, that this man is not a champion of America. He is not the man who should be leading our country, representing our country. He is not our face. He is not our heart. He is not our soul.

I really admire folks like you and Revo and others who have identified themselves as long time Republicans/Independents and who renounce or rebuke the Republican party until they renounce or rebuke him. It reminds me of the scene in 12 Angry Men, in the middle, when they are all still disagreeing about the guilt or innocence of the young man on trial, they all stand up and turn their backs on the man spewing hate and bigotry. Even those who agreed with him about the young man's guilt got up and did this, and he was left shouting and then pleading, until his spirit of hate was broken. This is what we need to do in this country now to this man who puts himself above us, who cares about himself and his interests above all others, this charlatan, this fraud, who is not fit for the office he holds.

[Hornsby]

Unless Mueller comes up with some REALLY compelling evidence against Trump, I think that impeachment is pretty unlikely. Better to focus energies on the elections, because at the end of the day, Pence is just a slightly more polished version of Trump. Get the broom out and have a clean sweep of all of the administration and their enablers, even if it takes a while longer.

Most of the damage that's been inflicted since Trump has take office can be undone, and some of it rather quickly. I suspect the rest of the world would do pretty much everything in their power to facilitate a return to normalcy, other than Russia, of course.

And of course, congratulation Bernie! Remember how to change a diaper? They're a little better now...

[hacko]

Bernie:

Congrats on being a grandpa - having 5 it is my biggest Joy now and my biggest fear. I fear for their future but hope they will be smarter and more compassionate then us. Not believe everything has to be black and white. Us against them like our 2 political parties.

I fear for the world.
I fear for our country
I fear for my Kids and grandkids
I fear....

I hope yesterday was the straw that broke the camels back - I fear not tho - to me there has been so many straws and the damn camel keeps going. hopefully in 2020 BOTH parties put up 2 DECENT human beings but I fear.....

[Sour Masher]

at the end of the day, Pence is just a slightly more polished version of Trump. Get the broom out and have a clean sweep of all of the administration and their enablers, even if it takes a while longer.

My wife agrees with you, but while I would hate to have Pence as president, because the dude is just as extreme/far right as Trump, and in some ways even more so, I still think he'd be a step back toward normalcy in our national politics. He would not be blowing racists dog whistles. He would not be selling us out to the Russians. He would not spend most of his time watching and responding to popular media outlets, or punching down in petty twitter beefs. He would not constantly attack the free press or the other branches of government, and imply our nation would be better without both of those things.

I know that substantively, he would not be much different, and I would vehemently oppose him as a presidential candidate. But at least he wouldn't be Trump.

[hacko]

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37231542_2560725563938406_1034651900709961728_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=c56aba83fcd3ad9d3829dfca87f29778&oe=5BE0EDF6