President Donald Trump

[baldgriff]

Donate, Register, help others, and above all VOTE! Changing the people in power is the only way this changes the system.

Agreed and I would include be willing/not afraid to vote for 3rd parties also as part of that VOTE statement.

[In the Corn]

What Trump did today was an absolute low point. How you don't support your own team and praise your adversary at the same time is down right treasonous. Trump should be concerned with the Russian meddling in the elections. It is a clear and present danger to our country. He can doubt the evidence, but you still support your team, especially in public.

America needs to have clean and fair elections without influence from other countries.

Just to give a glimpse of where someone from the Trump corner can make some hay when it comes to this whole idea of election meddling is referring to Clinton basically buying off the DNC for the nomination. There was nothing clean or fair in the primary elections when the DNC did nothing to support Bernie.

I'm not a Trump supporter, but thought it might be helpful to add where someone from Trump-ville might make an argument.

This whole trip for Trump has been a disaster for America.

[cardboardbox]

I am way more worried about domestic policy than I am about foreign policy.

100% with you on that.

All that said - again I didnt vote for him so in my mind the fact that he seems to have gotten SCOTUS picks that are cons/centrist

they'd better not be centrist!!!

[Sour Masher]

While I’m too lazy to find other examples, here is a very recent one. And, by here I assume you mean here on this Board, not those out in the wild. So, to my point, are really asking for a defense or is this just a fancy way of stating your opinion? Ok, I’ll admit that I took the short bus to school. Maybe I just don’t get it.

When Chancellor has taken the time to actually defend Trump's positions, with evidence, I've respected those attempts. I don't agree with his interpretations, but he has helped me see where other folks are coming from on those issues. I have also been led to understand the other side by CBB on some issues, and some others. So, yes, the comment you quote is both sincere in my belief that his actions and words are indefensible, and earnest in the hope that someone can pull me back from the belief that his actions are extremely dangerous, and that he represents an existential threat to the future of our nation.

Bernie, while we are in dialogue on this, and in the same spirit of dual indignation and sincere questing, I'll ask you more about your perspective on on this, and your approach in this thread. By your own admission, you are a contrarian, not fully vested in the devil's advocate positions you sometimes taken. Maybe for that reason, I cannot recall ever being swayed into understanding when you half-heartedly defend Trump as not so bad as liberals say, or lament the left for over-reacting to him, especially when those reactions seem to differ from how they reacted to previous presidents.

Your viewpoint, in this thread, generally seems to be, "sure, this guy is embarrassing and crass, but let's not get hysterical." By your own admission, you are not pro-Trump, and not Anti-Trump, but Anti-Anti Trump. I don't get that as a Cause du-jour. To me, it is like I'm pointing out that my house is on fire, and someone, like Chance, might argue that is for the best--insurance will cover it, and you will build it up better in the end. But my read on your perspective is more aligned with "well, it's not THAT big a fire, chill out!" or, sometimes "hmm, why are you freaking out about this guy burning down your house. I remember you didn't react this way when the last guy started a small kitchen fire that one time."

I can't recall an instances where we've disagreed on actual policy, but we do disagree on the extent to which Trump is horrible and dangerous. I think he is very much both. You think he is sometimes, sort of both. But despite that stance, you seem most passionate about not any of the issues at hand, but the point that you think liberals and progressives are very much over-blowing how bad Trump is. I just don't get why someone who doesn't even like Trump would be more annoyed with your perceived derangement of his detractors than the sins of the man himself. I don't get it.

So, sincere questions: 1. Do you really find the rhetoric of those who oppose Trump on the left more frustrating than the words and actions of the man, himself? If so, why? That seems to be the case, because your focus is on pushing back on what you perceived to be overblown or hypercritical criticisms of Trump. 2. Do you see the reaction the left has had to Trump as on par in terms of motivations and support with the doomsday reactions on the right to Obama? 3. I think you are older than me, so are there some historical precedents I am too young to know of that give you security in the belief that Trump isn't as dangerous and horrible as those, like me, believe him to be? Is he, in your estimation, just a more crass version of politicians we have had in the White House before?

To be clear on my stance: I think Trump is unique in our political history and warrants the level of "hysteria" some show when responding to him. And I can understand the defenses mounted by those who support him or his policies more than I can your Anti-Anti Trump stance. I don't know why someone who admits he is bad would get so annoyed at others saying he is the worst. But I may very well be missing something, and I hope your answers help me sleep at night, because this president keeps me up nearly as much as my infant son.

[Mithrandir]

When Chancellor has taken the time to actually defend Trump's positions, with evidence, I've respected those attempts. I don't agree with his interpretations, but he has helped me see where other folks are coming from on those issues. I have also been led to understand the other side by CBB on some issues, and some others. So, yes, the comment you quote is both sincere in my belief that his actions and words are indefensible, and earnest in the hope that someone can pull me back from the belief that his actions are extremely dangerous, and that he represents an existential threat to the future of our nation.

Bernie, while we are in dialogue on this, and in the same spirit of dual indignation and sincere questing, I'll ask you more about your perspective on on this, and your approach in this thread. By your own admission, you are a contrarian, not fully vested in the devil's advocate positions you sometimes taken. Maybe for that reason, I cannot recall ever being swayed into understanding when you half-heartedly defend Trump as not so bad as liberals say, or lament the left for over-reacting to him, especially when those reactions seem to differ from how they reacted to previous presidents.

Your viewpoint, in this thread, generally seems to be, "sure, this guy is embarrassing and crass, but let's not get hysterical." By your own admission, you are not pro-Trump, and not Anti-Trump, but Anti-Anti Trump. I don't get that as a Cause du-jour. To me, it is like I'm pointing out that my house is on fire, and someone, like Chance, might argue that is for the best--insurance will cover it, and you will build it up better in the end. But my read on your perspective is more aligned with "well, it's not THAT big a fire, chill out!" or, sometimes "hmm, why are you freaking out about this guy burning down your house. I remember you didn't react this way when the last guy started a small kitchen fire that one time."

I can't recall an instances where we've disagreed on actual policy, but we do disagree on the extent to which Trump is horrible and dangerous. I think he is very much both. You think he is sometimes, sort of both. But despite that stance, you seem most passionate about not any of the issues at hand, but the point that you think liberals and progressives are very much over-blowing how bad Trump is. I just don't get why someone who doesn't even like Trump would be more annoyed with your perceived derangement of his detractors than the sins of the man himself. I don't get it.

So, sincere questions: 1. Do you really find the rhetoric of those who oppose Trump on the left more frustrating than the words and actions of the man, himself? If so, why? That seems to be the case, because your focus is on pushing back on what you perceived to be overblown or hypercritical criticisms of Trump. 2. Do you see the reaction the left has had to Trump as on par in terms of motivations and support with the doomsday reactions on the right to Obama? 3. I think you are older than me, so are there some historical precedents I am too young to know of that give you security in the belief that Trump isn't as dangerous and horrible as those, like me, believe him to be? Is he, in your estimation, just a more crass version of politicians we have had in the White House before?

To be clear on my stance: I think Trump is unique in our political history and warrants the level of "hysteria" some show when responding to him. And I can understand the defenses mounted by those who support him or his policies more than I can your Anti-Anti Trump stance. I don't know why someone who admits he is bad would get so annoyed at others saying he is the worst. But I may very well be missing something, and I hope your answers help me sleep at night, because this president keeps me up nearly as much as my infant son.

Good questions for Bernie. I think the same thing about his posts about Trump.

[cardboardbox]

SM, I can see you love writing....

[Sour Masher]

SM, I can see you love writing....

Lol, well played again. I post way too many walls of text.

[Bernie Brewer]

So, sincere questions: 1. Do you really find the rhetoric of those who oppose Trump on the left more frustrating than the words and actions of the man, himself? If so, why? That seems to be the case, because your focus is on pushing back on what you perceived to be overblown or hypercritical criticisms of Trump. 2. Do you see the reaction the left has had to Trump as on par in terms of motivations and support with the doomsday reactions on the right to Obama? 3. I think you are older than me, so are there some historical precedents I am too young to know of that give you security in the belief that Trump isn't as dangerous and horrible as those, like me, believe him to be? Is he, in your estimation, just a more crass version of politicians we have had in the White House before?

Dude, thanks but I’m not taking your final exam and certainly not in an essay form. And, your little “What he said” guy can put his lips on my lower cheek.

If you clear your PMs I’d be happy to discuss.

[Sour Masher]

Dude, thanks but I’m not taking your final exam and certainly not in an essay form. And, your little “What he said” guy can put his lips on my lower cheek.

If you clear your PMs I’d be happy to discuss.

That is cool. Of course you have no obligation to answer my questions. I'm just grateful you didn't ask me to kiss your ass too. It isn't a pleasant task to contemplate .

Edit: I am enjoying all this free dialogue while I can. These sort of forums for criticisms will probably be shut down once we get annexed by Mother Russia.

[Bernie Brewer]

That is cool. Of course you have no obligation to answer my questions. I'm just grateful you didn't ask me to kiss your ass too. It isn't a pleasant task to contemplate .

While you have somehow determined that you have frustrated me, you have not. But that other guy, well different story.

And I will answer some of your questions when I have more time.

[Sour Masher]

While you have somehow determined that you have frustrated me, you have not. But that other guy, well different story.

And I will answer some of your questions when I have more time.

Thanks. While you are in a generous mood, I will echo what I think someone else has pleaded for--a new avatar for the summer months. I now cannot get the image of Ian McKellen kissing a rotund cartoon snowman's ass out of my brain. If you change your avatar to a hot chick, it will evoke much more pleasant images.

[Bernie Brewer]

Thanks. While you are in a generous mood, I will echo what I think someone else has pleaded for--a new avatar for the summer months. I now cannot get the image of Ian McKellen kissing a rotund cartoon snowman's ass out of my brain. If you change your avatar to a hot chick, it will evoke much more pleasant images.

I am the combination of many snowflakes!!

[cardboardbox]

Thanks. While you are in a generous mood, I will echo what I think someone else has pleaded for--a new avatar for the summer months. I now cannot get the image of Ian McKellen kissing a rotund cartoon snowman's ass out of my brain. If you change your avatar to a hot chick, it will evoke much more pleasant images.

He likes big (white) butts and he cannot lie.

[Bernie Brewer]

He likes big (white) butts and he cannot lie.

If we’re being honest, I like tiny adult asian butts.

[cardboardbox]

If we’re being honest, I like tiny adult asian butts.

do I need to find a tiny adult asian butt for your avatar?