President Donald Trump

[Bernie Brewer]

From the article - "First, fund and erect Trump’s “impenetrable, physical, tall, powerful, beautiful, southern border wall.” The U.S.-Mexican “border” is a 24-7 crime scene, steeped in bedlam. If parents know that they will encounter 30 feet of vertical concrete, they will avoid this dangerous journey, which will keep them with their children."

Wasn't it OneJ, the ultra-Rebuplican, who talked about Palestinians simply digging under the wall Israel had built? So I am supposed to agree to fund a multi-billion dollar wall that, per OneJ, people can dig under or, per the Donald himself, can use a rope to help climb over and get into our country? The Berlin Wall was semi-effective but it was much shorter and had armed guards willing to follow orders to shoot anyone trying to cross. I don't see how the wall with Mexico will work other than doing what the Russians did, clearing out 100 yards or so from the wall and manning in 24-7 with the army. Yes there are cities right on the border but we will have to destroy their homes/businesses to clear out the area for their own safety. Yes there is desert areas on the border but we will man them with guard towers and barbed wire and flood lights behind the wall to shoot anyone trying to cross. Yes we have a budget deficit but that only matters when Democrats spend money we don't have, not the Republicans.

I could give a shot about the ducking wall, but if that’s what Trump wants to fix the rest of our collective immigration concerns, like DACA and chain migration, asylum, and blah, blah, blah, give him his ducking wall, for Christ sake. At the end of the day it is a small price to pay in dollars and cents to resolve these issues. But the Dems see it as an epic struggle that they take a loss if they give Trump he’s token Wall. It’s a test of wills and no one gives in.

[Hornsby]

The wall is a stupid idea and always HAS been a stupid idea...tunnels honeycomb the area under the border, and no doubt many more would be dug if such a structure would be built. The border is NOT a "24-7 crime scene, steeped in bedlam", that's just not true. Just concentrate on the concepts that Brian brought up...try as you can to keep immigration safe and legal, and by all means, treat people as human beings.

[cardboardbox]

I could give a shot about the ducking wall, but if that’s what Trump wants to fix the rest of our collective immigration concerns, like DACA and chain migration, asylum, and blah, blah, blah, give him his ducking wall, for Christ sake. At the end of the day it is a small price to pay in dollars and cents to resolve these issues. But the Dems see it as an epic struggle that they take a loss if they give Trump he’s token Wall. It’s a test of wills and no one gives in.

I believe the wall will work as a deterrent to those deciding whether to make the trip.

[Hornsby]

I could give a shot about the ducking wall, but if that’s what Trump wants to fix the rest of our collective immigration concerns, like DACA and chain migration, asylum, and blah, blah, blah, give him his ducking wall, for Christ sake. At the end of the day it is a small price to pay in dollars and cents to resolve these issues. But the Dems see it as an epic struggle that they take a loss if they give Trump he’s token Wall. It’s a test of wills and no one gives in.

Bernie, Trump has NO intention of "fixing" immigration concerns, he wants it to all just go away with a wave of his hand. Illegal immigration waxes and wanes on a yearly basis, it certainly isn't getting exponentially worse. The wall isn't a loss to Dems, it's a total waste of money...and if it does get built, I'll bet you a dinner at your favorite restaurant that it won't come in on budget, as designed.

[Bernie Brewer]

Bernie, Trump has NO intention of "fixing" immigration concerns, he wants it to all just go away with a wave of his hand. Illegal immigration waxes and wanes on a yearly basis, it certainly isn't getting exponentially worse. The wall isn't a loss to Dems, it's a total waste of money...and if it does get built, I'll bet you a dinner at your favorite restaurant that it won't come in on budget, as designed.

What is the one thing we can all agree on that, regardless of which party has power, the Government does exceptionally well? Waste tax payer money! Is this stupid wall any more wasteful than determining why dogs yawn, or controlling and lowering toxic emissions from cow farts, or $19,900 toilet seats for a Social Security Office? I’m being absurd but if you want real examples of government waste, I’ll post them. If the Dems are as smart as they think they are they’ll get trade offs to resolve immigrations and DACA before funding the wall. It is about wins and losses and we, the tax payers, always, always, always lose.

[cardboardbox]

If the Dems are as smart as they think they are they’ll get trade offs to resolve immigrations and DACA before funding the wall.

they cant because RESIST!™

[Sour Masher]

I said last week the democrats were just playing politics as usual and just like your editorial says, as soon as the dems got what they wanted they whined about what they got. The dem position: "Separating children from their parents is inhumane!" A few hours later: "Keeping children with their parents is inhumane!" Coming soon: "Borders are inhumane!" I think a large portion of dems are already at that last one.

No one I have ever talked to in my life actually believes what Trump and GOP talking heads say they do--that America should have completely open borders. Not one. It would be an absurd and dumb idea and everyone with half a brain knows that, except the imaginary straw-people constructed by people fear-mongering that we are destroying our nation by seeking to dissolve all concepts of borders and boundaries. This is a consistent talking point on the right, with people like Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Savage, etc writing whole books about the subject. There is legitimate debate to be had on this subject, but, no "a large portion of dems" do not think borders are inhumane, useless, wrong, etc.

[B-Fly]

I believe the wall will work as a deterrent to those deciding whether to make the trip.

I doubt it. We already have net negative migration from Mexico to the US, so we're mostly talking about people from Central America who are so desperate now that they're willing to make the trip and take the risks. If you build a 30 foot wall along the entire southern land border, those desperate families will presumably make desperate attempts to get to the US by boat/raft via the Pacific/Atlantic/Gulf, or they'll use existing or dig new tunnels, or they'll figure out where the wall is least defended and attempt to get over it with ropes and ladders, etc. Again, given that the primary way of illegally immigrating to the US is by entering legally and overstaying your visa, and the level of desperation and ingenuity demonstrated by border crossers, I just don't see how the Wall will remotely work and the cost is absurd.

[Sour Masher]

I doubt it. We already have net negative migration from Mexico to the US, so we're mostly talking about people from Central America who are so desperate now that they're willing to make the trip and take the risks. If you build a 30 foot wall along the entire southern land border, those desperate families will presumably make desperate attempts to get to the US by boat/raft via the Pacific/Atlantic/Gulf, or they'll use existing or dig new tunnels, or they'll figure out where the wall is least defended and attempt to get over it with ropes and ladders, etc. Again, given that the primary way of illegally immigrating to the US is by entering legally and overstaying your visa, and the level of desperation and ingenuity demonstrated by border crossers, I just don't see how the Wall will remotely work and the cost is absurd.

Excellent point. No one who is willing to brave a 2500+ mile journey filled with dangers and hear about a 30 foot wall and say never mind.

[OaklandA's]

I could give a shot about the ducking wall, but if that’s what Trump wants to fix the rest of our collective immigration concerns, like DACA and chain migration, asylum, and blah, blah, blah, give him his ducking wall, for Christ sake. At the end of the day it is a small price to pay in dollars and cents to resolve these issues. But the Dems see it as an epic struggle that they take a loss if they give Trump he’s token Wall. It’s a test of wills and no one gives in.

I'm not sure why you keep repeating this lie, but the Democrats did offer to pay $20B for the stupid wall, in exchange for a path to citizenship for DACA students. Here are links from the Atlantic, the Washington Post, and Business Insider.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/democrats-schumer-trump-border-wall-daca/551288/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/01/20/schumer-offered-trump-something-democrats-hate-to-get-something-republicans-broadly-like/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d8af5bc8d5cc

http://www.businessinsider.com/government-shutdown-schumer-wall-funding-for-daca-trump-deal-2018-1

Trump turned the offer down, because he insisted on also getting rid of the Diversity Visa Program and the Family Reunification policies.

[Hornsby]

What is the one thing we can all agree on that, regardless of which party has power, the Government does exceptionally well? Waste tax payer money! Is this stupid wall any more wasteful than determining why dogs yawn, or controlling and lowering toxic emissions from cow farts, or $19,900 toilet seats for a Social Security Office? I’m being absurd but if you want real examples of government waste, I’ll post them. If the Dems are as smart as they think they are they’ll get trade offs to resolve immigrations and DACA before funding the wall. It is about wins and losses and we, the tax payers, always, always, always lose.

Early on, the dems DID try, and it was almost always Lucy pulling the football away. They thought that they had an agreement on DACA, nope, they thought that they could get some sort of consensus on immigration, nope. They didn't really know what Trump was, neither did the GOP...now they know and they ain't playing ball anymore. If anyone needs to extend an olive branch, it's Trump...although at this point, I doubt that the Dems would trust him...


ETA: Yeah, what Oak said...7 minutes later. LOL...

[cardboardbox]

Excellent point. No one who is willing to brave a 2500+ mile journey filled with dangers and hear about a 30 foot wall and say never mind.

I think some of them will say never mind.

[Bernie Brewer]

I'm not sure why you keep repeating this lie, but the Democrats did offer to pay $20B for the stupid wall, in exchange for a path to citizenship for DACA students. Here are links from the Atlantic, the Washington Post, and Business Insider.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/democrats-schumer-trump-border-wall-daca/551288/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/01/20/schumer-offered-trump-something-democrats-hate-to-get-something-republicans-broadly-like/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d8af5bc8d5cc

http://www.businessinsider.com/government-shutdown-schumer-wall-funding-for-daca-trump-deal-2018-1

Trump turned the offer down, because he insisted on also getting rid of the Diversity Visa Program and the Family Reunification policies.

Thanks I guess I just a liar. Have a nice day!

[gcstomp]

That is crazy how there is complete amnesia regarding this, Schumer completely capitulated in the Republican+ Dem negotiations, and days leading to the expiration of DACA, agreed to Trump's number for funding the wall, and when Trump was presented agreement simply changed the parameters. That this is at all presented as an equal childish standoff, just too heartbreaking that as great as the outcry is over this crisis, it hasnt been 10fold greater and completely frozen everything until this is resolved.

Close the markets, the banks, the roadways, have mass civil disobedience to match the 9 out of 10 us citizens that want DACA recipients to stay. If 90% of pop said this must happen and backs it with action, change happens. I suppose Trump could go all Standing Rock and order streets cleared with military, teargas and water hose crowds, but enough pressure applied progress occurs. How has change occurred in authoritarian regimes across history where a strongman has eliminated free press, discredited opponents, and gaslighted public to extent that truth and lies are inseparable to majority? The blueprint to follow would not be something familiar to America, but as often as we hear words unprecedented regarding this admin, its not anything flashy and new in world history.

BTW, how much would this wall as described cost? 100 billion plus 150 mill a year to maintain for a literal zero effect. We have a failing infrastructure, roadways, bridges, trains, tunnels, dams, power plants, that is more than a generation behind other nations and will cost lives that the great wall of Trump would finance to a good start. If we had funding to do it. Which we dont. Unless its for a wall. Just too much.

[B-Fly]

Thanks I guess I just a liar. Have a nice day!

I understand why you're taking it that way, but I read Oak as suggesting that you're misremembering the chain of events.