President Donald Trump

[Hornsby]

All I am saying is it’s peaceful protest when done by liberals, will it still be considered so biengly so when it’s the extreme right? I am betting not.

If it's peaceful, yes. As well as NOT advocating racist and/or sexist positions, Right Wings can protest all day long. I've covered more than a few peaceful conservative protests...a total no issue as long as both sides obey the rules.

[Bernie Brewer]

I doubt Fox or local news would apply such labels to right-wing protests. Or were you talking about other less popular news sources as MSM? Sorry B, I get your point. I just get tickled at how successful right-winged media has been at labeling themselves non-mainstream, even though most local news stations lean right, and Fox is far and away the the most watched of the 24 hour news networks. But somehow they are not mainstream. Oh, and by far the most circulated newspaper in the country, the WSJ, is owned by Murdoch. Number 4 in the nation is the NYP, which is right leaning--tabloid silliness mostly, but right leaning nonetheless. The whole notion at the vast majority of news sources, i.e. "mainstream media" is all leftist propaganda is just an amazing snow job by the right.

I live in Chicago. I think local news isn’t nearly as political as MSM. TBTH, I doubt I have ever watched Fox News, other than local Fox in Milwaukee or Chicago, for anything other than something of a huge news event (911, Katrina, etc.) in my life. I have no interest. I have historically watched CNN but that is hard to do these days.

[Hornsby]

Interesting you would see it this way, as a loss for Trump, vs acknowledging he finally did the right thing. More importantly, the real loser are the kids here under DACA. There has been no will by either side to cooperate on a resolution to DACA.

You're the one reading things into it BB...yesterday Trump said that it was his policy, today, he doesn't. I can't see anything else other than he caved into public pressure, which ANY public official should. They do serve us, right?

Daca is another fight that's currently grinding it's way through the courts...

[cardboardbox]

All I am saying is it’s peaceful protest when done by liberals, will it still be considered so biengly so when it’s the extreme right? I am betting not.

Of course not, somehow it would be racist if conservatives did the same.

[cardboardbox]

Interesting you would see it this way, as a loss for Trump, vs acknowledging he finally did the right thing. More importantly, the real loser are the kids here under DACA. There has been no will by either side to cooperate on a resolution to DACA.

The whole thing was about politics, either Trump is evil for not changing his policy, or he caved and is weak if he changes his policy.

[Sour Masher]

I live in Chicago. I think local news isn’t nearly as political as MSM. TBTH, I doubt I have ever watched Fox News, other than local Fox in Milwaukee or Chicago, for anything other than something of a huge news event (911, Katrina, etc.) in my life. I have no interest. I have historically watched CNN but that is hard to do these days.

What counts as MSM for you B? My point was that I just don't understand that label. It is one used by conservatives to identify liberal media. I don't get that label. There are liberal and conservatives news sources that I consider MSM. Yet, despite many of the biggest news outlets in the country being conservative, MSM=liberal media? I don't get it. You said MSM would treat peaceful right-wing protests differently, so it seemed clear you were also labeling MSM as liberal media.

[Sour Masher]

The whole thing was about politics, either Trump is evil for not changing his policy, or he caved and is weak if he changes his policy.

That might be true to pundits, talking heads, and some die hard R and D banner waivers, but for a lot of folks, they are just happy this got changed. I do think he showed who he is by enforcing this--everything I read indicated he knew full well what this would do and he embraced this to see how it would go in the court of public opinion. But I applaud him for seeing the writing on the wall here. I don't think it is a sign of weakness to stop doing the wrong thing and start doing the right thing. I'm happy this is getting changed.

[Bernie Brewer]

What counts as MSM for you B? My point was that I just don't understand that label. It is one used by conservatives to identify liberal media. I don't get that label. There are liberal and conservatives news sources that I consider MSM. Yet, despite many of the biggest news outlets in the country being conservative, MSM=liberal media? I don't get it. You said MSM would treat peaceful right-wing protests differently, so it seemed clear you were also labeling MSM as liberal media.

Maybe I don’t get how labels work because I think Fox News is definitely MSM. As is WSJ and to a lesser extent the NYPost, which I’ve also never read. And, yes maybe I should say liberal media from now on but you cannot deny that MSNBC, CNN, NYT, and WaPo would have the same take if righties were doing this. B

[Sour Masher]

Maybe I don’t get how labels work because I think Fox News is definitely MSM. As is WSJ and to a lesser extent the NYPost, which I’ve also never read. And, yes maybe I should say liberal media from now on but you cannot deny that MSNBC, CNN, NYT, and WaPo would have the same take if righties were doing this. B

Yeah, to an extent, I think they would, although as Horns pointed out, I think at least in some cases, they are not exact equivalencies, since there is a difference between protesting for children to stay with their parents and protesting for white nationalism or confederate flags.

But yeah, I have a pet peeve about equating MSM with liberal media. They are not the same terms, and their use as synonyms is a great victory for conservative desires to see the media as largely controlled by liberals. It is not. Most local media in this country leans conservative, and many of the national media sources do too. Your original point would have been more accurate using the term "liberal media." It is not accurate, though, if you think of Fox, the WSJ, and the NYP as mainstream. Yes, you can name more national media sources that are liberal, but that is simply because conservative sources, in print, online, on the radio, and on tv, are generally more consolidated, with the major players in each of those media that are conservative drawing bigger numbers compared to their liberal counterparts.

You don't watch Fox, but I believe they are the ones that actually started the campaign to equate these terms, quite successfully, years ago. But, as you say, they are part of the MSM, as are the other huge conservative news sources I listed. So, every time someone replaces the term "liberal media" with MSM, to me, that represents a huge win for Fox and conservative media in general, as they have successfully misled people into thinking all mainstream media is liberal and sources like Fox News are outsider/rebel/truth tellers.

[B-Fly]

I know we still disagree on a ton of stuff and there's a ton of stuff for everyone to be angry about, but I'm going to just take a moment to say...Great! The policy of separating families that we all purported to want ended is being ended. Good news.

[Sour Masher]

I know we still disagree on a ton of stuff and there's a ton of stuff for everyone to be angry about, but I'm going to just take a moment to say...Great! The policy of separating families that we all purported to want ended is being ended. Good news.

Yes, I think most here agree that is a great thing.

[Bernie Brewer]

So how is everyone going to feel about locking up families together? Cuz that seems next!

[onejayhawk]

All I am saying is it’s peaceful protest when done by liberals, will it still be considered so benignly so when it’s the extreme right? I am betting not.

Many Democrats deny that the Tea Party is a grassroots organization, even though it is a textbook example. Somehow, all legitimate protests have been co-opted by one party.

J

[Hornsby]

So how is everyone going to feel about locking up families together? Cuz that seems next!

It's better that families stay together, and have a CHANCE at a life together, than to be seperated and maybe never see eachother again.

As it is now, there is speculation, again speculation, that there are already minors lost in the system...

[B-Fly]

So how is everyone going to feel about locking up families together? Cuz that seems next!

Better than forced separation. They need to dedicate extra resources to process these cases as expeditiously as possible and should try to expedite families with young children. And the conditions of the waiting/detention centers need to be as humane as they can be made. In fact, I'd suggest they should invite impartial monitors to observe the detention centers.