President Donald Trump

[senorsheep]

And now the US is making Propaganda films...for North Korea. You simply can't make this stuff up, you just can't. Turns out it's nothing more than a shitty real estate ad...]

Well, hey, you guys get mad when he calls'em sh!tholes. There's just no pleasing you.

[senorsheep]

I had expected to be some sort of Quid pro Quo from NK, but nothing, because they didn't have to.

I deleted my previous response. I must be misunderstanding you.

Are you upset that we didn't get any solid concessions from them in this first round of negotiations? If so, I'm not sure that was a realistic expectation for a first meeting.

I don't understand the "quid pro quo" comment. There is no "quid pro quo" at this point - no one has given or received anything. He said that *if* future negotiations proceed to our liking, *then* we will withdraw our troops from SK and cease war games. He hasn't given them anything yet, aside from a conditional carrot, so I'm not sure I understand the narrative that he was played.

Seems to me that the partisan Left was simply poised to bitch no matter what.

I dunno, we'll see. He made it through one meeting without an international crisis. Sounds like an OK start to me.

[Hornsby]

He said flatly that he'd cancel the Pacific war games. That's a huge piece in the potential negotiations, and it leaves our allies in a pretty big lurch. There should have been a Quid Pro Quo there of some sort, but NK gave up nothing, and never promised to do anything. South Korea, one of our strongest allies in the region for decades is said to be perplexed, wondering where this may leave them. What happens with Japan? Taiwan? When/if does China open the door to step through? Trump has given up a lot in terms of relations with out allies, and our place in the world...if he wants to be an isolationist, he's certainly making all the right moves.

[The Feral Slasher]

So I don't see how yesterday's summit was a negative in any way. It was positive, and we have much more cause for optimism regarding North Korea than we did a year ago when the leaders were exchanging nuclear threats and insults. But it's clearly only a very tip-of-the-iceberg thing. An agreement to continue working together in good faith toward peace and denuclearization, but no firm commitments to specific, measurable, time-bound action (except presumably the US promise to cease military exercises on the Korean peninsula). I feel like if President Obama had held the exact same summit and signed the exact same commitment that the GOP would be slamming him for that concession and for the embrace of Kim's legitimacy with no specific measurable concessions from the DPRK. But I'll give Trump a positive diplomacy stamp of approval contingent on sustained momentum toward a more comprehensive future agreement with specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and time-bound commitments.

I agree with just about everything you wrote here. Trump did it so partisans will take sides. If it was Obama they'd all magically be on different sides. Nothing to get too excited about, but at least hope for some progress.

[gcstomp]

Our own military is still scheduling the SK/US exercises, as they have done for past 70 years. Evidently Trump not only took SK by surprise, but our own military leadership as well. But the planning is proceeding as planned until explicity ordered to shut down operations as US leadership has taken to disregarding the commander in chief as white noise, thats what we call everything that comes out of Trumps mouth, and await orders in print. Trump has backtracked, flipflopped, and outright admits to lies, so it would not be out of realm of possibility that tomorrow Trump will simply deny he said anything about cancelling the joint operations. Even in the face of having it shown to him on tape, he will deny.

But yes, Trump gave a couple of concessions, one is that Kim got something he could not get from prior admins, nor his father, or father before him, and that was a one on one with US President in which they meet as equals, and President providing literally hours of fawning coverage smiling, shaking hands, calling Kim honorable, piling up honorifics while at same time actively hurling insults at every one of our major allies, most pointedly our canadian neighbor. The 2nd concession was the one Kim has desperately sought year after year, and it was made as a simple throw away comment by Trump. No more joint exercises, they cost money.

[gcstomp]

all that said, i dont think the NK meeting was a disaster or anything, just that US seems to have given "stuff" and received nothing. But the goal is peace, subtracting nuke power from NK, and for Trump, to make waves. If its messy along the way, so what, nothing will be by the book by this President. I have fingers crossed.

[onejayhawk]

He said flatly that he'd cancel the Pacific war games. That's a huge piece in the potential negotiations, and it leaves our allies in a pretty big lurch. There should have been a Quid Pro Quo there of some sort, but NK gave up nothing, and never promised to do anything. South Korea, one of our strongest allies in the region for decades is said to be perplexed, wondering where this may leave them. What happens with Japan? Taiwan? When/if does China open the door to step through? Trump has given up a lot in terms of relations with out allies, and our place in the world...if he wants to be an isolationist, he's certainly making all the right moves.

It's not even a large piece since it can easily be rescheduled. Door prize would be closer. It is also traditional to start oriental negotiations with an exchange of gifts. NK will find a way to recipricate.

NK showed up for the summit, which really was huge. We gave up something to give Kim Jung-Un face at home. He's going to need it, because his father's generation has not died out yet. There is also PRC to consider.

As Brian said, this is solid groundwork. It's no more than that, but also no less. Did you expect a ping-pong team?

J

[Gregg]

Praising a rival prior to and during a negotiation is a rhetorical tactic as old as time. I just find the fevered rush to bury him for doing it amusing.

I'm guessing he didn't consult his military-industrial complex friends before dangling the "troop withdrawal" carrot. I can't imagine the perpetual war machine was pleased to hear that.

I wonder if they complimented each other on their haircuts?

[cardboardbox]

I wonder if they complimented each other on their haircuts?

[Fresno Bob]

please explain how this deal is great, and the Iran deal was not

[B-Fly]

please explain how this deal is great, and the Iran deal was not

Presumably the true "deal" is still to be negotiated. I guess the best argument for preferring "NK-so-far" to the Iran deal is that we haven't made any meaningful concessions (yet), but then again we haven't received any either.

[Hornsby]

Presumably the true "deal" is still to be negotiated. I guess the best argument for preferring "NK-so-far" to the Iran deal is that we haven't made any meaningful concessions (yet), but then again we haven't received any either.

I'd have to say the administration claiming that they'll unilaterally stop the war games is a pretty large concession, as well as a signal to all of the free countries in the region that their relationships with the US is very tenuous.

Again, we'll have to see if anything happens out of this other than a garish real estate pitch for Trump Hotels North Korea.

[Hornsby]

Happy Pre- 4th of July Paul Manafort! Off to jail for you, NO GRILLING, other than your own soul.

Manafort will be jailed after being accused of witness tampering while awaiting trial on federal conspiracy and money laundering charges brought by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III.

The order to imprison President Trump’s former campaign manager came in a federal court hearing after Manafort had been asking to post a $10 million bond and end seven months of home detention.

WaPo news alerts.

[Hornsby]

We've already started a system where we rip children from their parents arms, where policy seems to be to prevent hugs between children. Now, we're embarking on an even more heinous step...housing children in Tent cities in Texas. People are all making the proper noises and hand wringing gestures...but not to the point where any of this is going to be stopped. Trump says it's terrible, all that needs to be done to stop it is to give him all his border immigration nonsense. Not ONE GOP Senator has come forward at this point to join the 43 Dems in opposition to the policy...even Franklin Graham says the policy is "disgraceful".

Is this what we are as a nation, is this what we've sunk to? Ripping children from their parents? Frankly, I'm ashamed...

[Sour Masher]

There are stories of nursing babies being taken from their mother's arms, while nursing, screaming babies, crying mothers.

There are situations that one must know, when they are doing it, that they are the agents of evil. I know, I know, law and order, follow the rules and we won't take your babies away from you. Whatever. All I know is if I was tasked with doing this, I don't think I'd be able to tell myself I'm just following orders. I think I'd have to find myself another line of work.