President Donald Trump

[DMT]

Long way off, but I think if he brings jobs back, people will put up with a lot of other stuff if it doesn't directly effect them. If he doesn't, it will be the biggest blood-letting in midterm election history.

Real or alternative job numbers?

[nots]

Real or alternative job numbers?

I realize you're being snarky or making a joke, but thats actually a very interesting question. Unemployment numbers look great now, but lot of folks in the Rust Belt are struggling and their experiences didnt match the numbers, which is why Trump won a couple of those states. The same thing could happen again. Low unemployment but he diesnt deliver for the Rust Belt and they go back to their traditional Democratic roots. I supppse the opposite could be true as well--bad official numbers, but more people doing better. So I guess, the alternative numbers, lol or maybe the CCI is going to be a better barometer going forward.

[senorsheep]

I realize you're being snarky or making a joke, but thats actually a very interesting question. Unemployment numbers look great now, but lot of folks in the Rust Belt are struggling and their experiences didnt match the numbers, which is why Trump won a couple of those states. The same thing could happen again. Low unemployment but he diesnt deliver for the Rust Belt and they go back to their traditional Democratic roots. I supppse the opposite could be true as well--bad official numbers, but more people doing better. So I guess, the alternative numbers, lol or maybe the CCI is going to be a better barometer going forward.

Trump rightly lambasted Obama for not using the U-6 to give an accurate picture of our employment situation. If Trump uses anything but the U-6, he should be kicked in the nuts. As should any Obama supporter who fails to acknowledge that he routinely cherry-picked employment numbers to paint a rosy jobs picture that was utter BS.

[Sour Masher]

Trump makes surprise trip on presidential helicopter to honor return of fallen US Navy SEAL

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-makes-surprise-trip-presidential-205311589.html

"Trump was said to have had a long phone call with Owens' family. Owens represents the first combat loss during Trump's presidency."


Is this what the usual suspects were hyperventilating about last night?

If you are referring to me, I wasn't hyperventilating about anything. And no one has refuted or even addressed my points about the strike in Yemen, the first one on Trump's watch, killing innocent women and children, and how this follows him saying the US should kill the families of terrorists. As I previously indicated, him acknowledging the death of a Navy Seal is no surprise. Let me know when he takes back calling the action a success and admits how horrible it was that innocent Muslims women and children were killed by American soldiers, instead of completing ignoring their deaths in his statement that it was a successful mission.

And please see my admittedly long previous post with lots of concessions and qualifiers and repudiations of Obama and others before responding, because trying to show this is business as usual and sidestepping the things that make it different won't be convincing to me at all, as I already addressed all of that. His previous rhetoric and current indifference exacerbate these horrific deaths, and make Trump an ideal recruitment tool for extremists.

[cardboardbox]

Trump rightly lambasted Obama for not using the U-6 to give an accurate picture of our employment situation. If Trump uses anything but the U-6, he should be kicked in the nuts. As should any Obama supporter who fails to acknowledge that he routinely cherry-picked employment numbers to paint a rosy jobs picture that was utter BS.

sigh, I remember talking about that endlessly in 2012. No one cared.

[cardboardbox]

If you are referring to me, I wasn't hyperventilating about anything. And no one has refuted or even addressed my points about the strike in Yemen, the first one on Trump's watch, killing innocent women and children, and how this follows him saying the US should kill the families of terrorists. As I previously indicated, him acknowledging the death of a Navy Seal is no surprise. Let me know when he takes back calling the action a success and admits how horrible it was that innocent Muslims women and children were killed by American soldiers.

And please see my admittedly long previous post with lots of concessions and qualifiers and repudiations of Obama and others before responding, because trying to show this is business as usual and sidestepping the things that make it different won't be convincing to me at all, as I already addressed all of that. His previous rhetoric and current indifference exacerbate these horrific deaths, and make Trump an ideal recruitment tool for extremists.

oh, I thought u and horns were mad that Trump didnt appear to care about a soldier that died.

[Sour Masher]

oh, I thought u and horns were mad that Trump didnt appear to care about a soldier that died.

Nope, wasn't my issue. My issue was 1. He said we should kill women and children related to terrorists, 2. His first sanctioned mission did just that, killing over a dozen such noncombatants, and 3. His statement about the mission led with him calling it a success, even while acknowledging the death of the Navy Seal, not mentioning what a complete clusterfuck it was, and not mentioning that the mission involved US forces killing over a dozen women and children.

[The Feral Slasher]

Nope, wasn't my issue. My issue was 1. He said we should kill women and children related to terrorists, 2. His first sanctioned mission did just that, killing over a dozen such noncombatants, and 3. His statement about the mission lead with him calling it a success, even while acknowledging the death of the Navy Seal, not mentioning what a complete clusterfuck it was, and not mentioning that the mission involved US forces killing over a dozen women and children.

So do you think the U.S. military purposely killed women and children at the direction of Trump ?

Here's a link about Yemen -- Has Obama apologized for aiding the Saudi's in their slaughter of 4000 civilians ?

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/obama_is_killing_yemen_a_yemeni

On Sunday, thousands of Yemenis gathered at the United Nations building in Sana’a calling for an international investigation into the U.S-backed Saudi assault on a funeral. The attack was carried out with warplanes and munitions sold to the Saudi-led coalition by the United States. The U.S. Air Force continues to provide midair refueling to Saudi warplanes. According to the U.N., more than 4,000 civilians have been killed and over 7,000 injured since the Saudi-led coalition bombing began last year. Airstrikes have reportedly caused about 60 percent of the deaths.

[Sour Masher]

So do you think the U.S. military purposely killed women and children at the direction of Trump ?

Here's a link about Yemen -- Has Obama apologized for aiding the Saudi's in their slaughter of 4000 civilians ?

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/obama_is_killing_yemen_a_yemeni

On Sunday, thousands of Yemenis gathered at the United Nations building in Sana’a calling for an international investigation into the U.S-backed Saudi assault on a funeral. The attack was carried out with warplanes and munitions sold to the Saudi-led coalition by the United States. The U.S. Air Force continues to provide midair refueling to Saudi warplanes. According to the U.N., more than 4,000 civilians have been killed and over 7,000 injured since the Saudi-led coalition bombing began last year. Airstrikes have reportedly caused about 60 percent of the deaths.

If you read my previous admittedly too long post, I think I address both of those issues. I have never defended Obama for drone strikes that killed civilians and in fact have repudiated them, and I never claimed seals were ordered to kill innocent women and children. I also laid out why I think this happening on Trump's watch is especially troubling, despite the previous two statements. If folks disagree with my claims, I'm all ears, but I'd appreciate folks addressing my specific claims and not create a strawman.

[nots]

So do you think the U.S. military purposely killed women and children at the direction of Trump ?

Here's a link about Yemen -- Has Obama apologized for aiding the Saudi's in their slaughter of 4000 civilians ?

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/obama_is_killing_yemen_a_yemeni

On Sunday, thousands of Yemenis gathered at the United Nations building in Sana’a calling for an international investigation into the U.S-backed Saudi assault on a funeral. The attack was carried out with warplanes and munitions sold to the Saudi-led coalition by the United States. The U.S. Air Force continues to provide midair refueling to Saudi warplanes. According to the U.N., more than 4,000 civilians have been killed and over 7,000 injured since the Saudi-led coalition bombing began last year. Airstrikes have reportedly caused about 60 percent of the deaths.

How about we just get out of there and try to limit our footprint over there no matter the Administration?

[Sour Masher]

How about we just get out of there and try to limit our footprint over there no matter the Administration?

It is hard to completely remove ourselves, but I agree with this general desire. In fact, I suspect most Americans agree with this, and yet, we haven't done it.

[DMT]

It is hard to completely remove ourselves, but I agree with this general desire. In fact, I suspect most Americans agree with this, and yet, we haven't done it.

That's because we ignored Ike's farewell warning.

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

[The Feral Slasher]

If you read my previous admittedly too long post, I think I address both of those issues. I have never defended Obama for drones strikes that killed civiliansand in fact have repudiated them, and I never claimed seals were ordered to kill innocent women and children. I also laid out why I think this happening on Trump's watch is especially troubling, despite the previous two statements. If folks disagree with my claims, I'm all ears, but I'd appreciate folks addressing my specific claims and not trying to create a strawman.

I simply asked you to clarify if you thought Trump was ordering this on purpose. And clearly you didn't. Anyway I think you've made yourself clear on why civilian deaths happening on Trump's watch are especially troubling. I consider accidental civilian deaths under Obama and Trump as equally bad. Not sure what strawman you think I'm trying to create.

[Sour Masher]

Thanks for posting that quote DMT. Not only is it the perfect sentiment for us to remember, it us good to be reminded of the intellectual heavy weights that have held the highest office in our land.

[Sour Masher]

I simply asked you to clarify if you thought Trump was ordering this on purpose. And clearly you didn't. Anyway I think you've made yourself clear on why civilian deaths happening on Trump's watch are especially troubling. I consider accidental civilian deaths under Obama and Trump as equally bad. Not sure what strawman you think I'm trying to create.

It was presumptuous for me to assume any had or should read my overly long screed where I was careful to repudiate Obama and careful to emphasize my concern was a matter of global perception, so I shouldn't have assumed you were creating a strawman or deflecting from my core argument by asking if I was arguing trump ordered the murder of civilians or if I was being hypocritical for calling attention to this issue unless I was equally vocal in denouncing Obama.

I still maintain that many, and especially those in the Muslim world, will perceive this as a purposeful act, regardless of whether it was, given Trump's rhetoric about Muslims and terrorists.