Originally posted by Sour Masher
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President Donald Trump
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I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.
Ronald Reagan
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Originally posted by Bernie Brewer View PostSo your saying that if the President of the United States of American makes a commitment or enters into an agreement with other countries, no matter its popularity back home, and despite not gaining congressional concensus, and irregardless of that President being a lame duck President, the Country should stand by that because it’s “our” word. Because you know who’s President now right?
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Originally posted by chancellor View PostThe IAEA has actually caught them red-handed twice. Supposedly, those issues have been "fixed".
My mileage is that these are simply tip of the iceberg findings; your mileage may vary.
Do you honestly think that those two heavy-water situations (back in early 2017) show that Iran is secretly trying to develop a nuclear weapon?
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Originally posted by Bernie Brewer View PostSo your saying that if the President of the United States of American makes a commitment or enters into an agreement with other countries, no matter its popularity back home, and despite not gaining congressional concensus, and irregardless of that President being a lame duck President, the Country should stand by that because it’s “our” word. Because you know who’s President now right?
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Originally posted by B-Fly View PostI think we're missing something here regarding the original deal, and that is that despite the Obama Administration's initial position that this type of agreement required neither a formal constitutional treaty nor Congressional review because he had the authority to lift or renew sanctions, Congress passed the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act of 2015, with a unanimous vote in the House and a 98-1 vote in the Senate, and the Obama Administration ultimately agreed that it would accept this bi-partisan compromise regarding how the agreement subsequently reached with Iran and the other nations party to the agreement would be submitted for Congressional review, and Obama signed the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act of 2015 into law. Tom Cotton was the only member of Congress to vote no on the grounds that this type of agreement had to occur through the constitutional process for treaties. The Obama Administration then abided fully by the terms of that Act in submitting the Iran proposal to Congress for review, and Congress failed to reject the deal reached by the Obama Administration in accordance with the terms of that bi-partisan agreement setting forth how Congressional review would go down (60 days to reject, or it's a deal). So yes, Congress having agreed in a bi-partisan fashion to the terms for review, and that having been signed into law, I do think that the other parties to the agreement had just cause, once the 60 day Congressional review period under the Review Act expired without the deal being rejected by Congress, to believe and assume that the US would abide by the agreement at that it would not be subject to unilateral reconsideration and withdrawal by a subsequent US President.
https://ballotpedia.org/Iran_nuclear...ssional_reviewLast edited by Bernie Brewer; 05-09-2018, 11:41 AM.I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.
Ronald Reagan
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Originally posted by Bernie Brewer View PostWhile the above may be correct, it still wasn’t affirmatively ratified by congress. It was an absence or anti-ratification, if anything. Should it have been ratified, I can’t say as I’m not a constitutional law expert. Seems to me you’d want affirmative concensus but Obama knew he wouldn’t get it with the GOP control both House and Senate. But, elections have consequences. And, this didn’t come out of the completely out of the blue. Trump ran on this. He’s been in office 18 months and so foreign countries have known for as long as 36 months that if Trump were elected, this outcome was a very real possibility.
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Originally posted by B-Fly View PostHe had a 98-1 vote in the Senate and a unanimous vote in the House agreeing to the terms for Congressional review. That's the most consensus there was on anything in the eight years of his presidency.Last edited by Bernie Brewer; 05-09-2018, 12:22 PM.I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.
Ronald Reagan
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Is Trump doing this just because he's an asshole? Seems to me that's why he does most things."I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."
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Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostI was waiting for this to come up . Well put. My response is going to seem like I cop out, I suspect. It's that it depends. Yes, if Trump makes a deal with other nations in good faith (this is entirely different to me than overturning his domestic agenda), unless the deal represents something truly egregiousness or nefarious (I don't consider this deal to be either of those things), or significant new information comes to light rendering the deal untenable (I don't consider to minor violations found and corrected to count), I believe we should honor the deal, for the good of our reputation. I know that is a lot of caveats, but those are my thoughts."The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." -NY Times
"For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts" - Joe Biden
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Originally posted by Mithrandir View PostIs Trump doing this just because he's an asshole? Seems to me that's why he does most things.
Why Trump decided to pull the U.S. out of the deal
Trump campaigned against the Iran nuclear agreement, which he called the worst ever negotiated. He cited weaknesses in the deal that the leaders of France, Germany and Britain have acknowledged and pledged to improve. Those include:
• Eliminating expiration dates on the most important restrictions on Iran's nuclear activity, which would allow Iran to resume large-scale processing of nuclear fuel starting in 2025.
• Allowing inspections of military sites, which Iran currently disputes.
• Limiting Iran's ballistic missile program.
• Addressing Iran's support for terrorist groups across the Middle East."The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." -NY Times
"For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts" - Joe Biden
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Originally posted by cardboardbox View PostIsnt the senate supposed to ratify treaties? If you cant get senate approval, then there is no treaty, right? The agreement was based on finding loopholes in our own laws which had the side affect of making it super easy for Trump to walk away from.
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Hey, did anyone else notice that Trump's shitty diplomacy was able to gain the release of three US National prisoners from DPRK? Just wondering. Yes, I know two of whom were imprisoned during his term, but another was there longer, so...I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.
Ronald Reagan
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Originally posted by Bernie Brewer View PostHey, did anyone else notice that Trump's shitty diplomacy was able to gain the release of three US National prisoners from DPRK? Just wondering. Yes, I know two of whom were imprisoned during his term, but another was there longer, so...
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Originally posted by revo View PostYep. And when he announced it the other day, he made damn sure to accuse Obama of not doing enough to get the three of them out (and like you said, two of them were not even imprisoned yet). Every positive with this dotard ends with a major negative.I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.
Ronald Reagan
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Originally posted by Bernie Brewer View PostI’m not sure. Ask the one guy and his family if it’s a negative. But, I do understand what you’re saying. So the real question is would you (or anyone) give him any credit for this Had he not said something stupid about all three being from the previous administration?
Sure, they deserved credit, but that got lost (to me) when he blatantly lied about Obama to brainwash his base. Sorry.
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