President Donald Trump

[Hornsby]

Thanks. I’m kinda excited (if over the moon is just kinda). His girlfriend has also has a four yr old son who is my “grandson” and they’ve been in our lives for about three years now. So he’s also mine! He’s my best buddy ever.

Because this thread got sort of off topic let me get it back on topic.

God Trump sucks. Or, no he doesn’t.

Back on topic...Rudy Giuliani, Trump's latest consiglieri, comes out tonight on Hannity and declares that Donald himself DID pay Stormy Daniels the $130,000. He just funneled it through Cohen's law firm.

I think that might be more troublesome than if they'd just let it go as they initially stated and paid it out of campaign funds...

[revo]

Back on topic...Rudy Giuliani, Trump's latest consiglieri, comes out tonight on Hannity and declares that Donald himself DID pay Stormy Daniels the $130,000. He just funneled it through Cohen's law firm.

I think that might be more troublesome than if they'd just let it go as they initially stated and paid it out of campaign funds...

All these lies, I have no idea what’s going on here!

[MagSeven]

That is all I was saying. It’s flawed. I have no dog in this fight. In fact, I do actually as I have a son who was diagnosed with Hodgkin’s Lymphoma two years ago at age 31 (he’s doing great, btw!). I have Diabetes (I’m doing ok). We have pre-existing conditions, so I’m all for “let’s fix it.” As I recall every contribution the Republicans wanted to make were dismissed. In the end, it was, in fact, rammed through Congress without any bi-partisanship. The Dems had a 60 vote majority, including two Independents, and they didn't need to concede anything to the GOP and they didn't. In Washington, its pretty much a "Reap what you sow" environment. I don’t think many people object to the idea of ACA, some object, irrationally, to the name it is often referred to by, while most others want the plan to work.

I sincerely hope you and your family are well. As far as Republicans wanting to contribute to the ACA, that is false. The Dems,as part of the Gang of Six (3 Dems/3 Repubs) offered to start with a template from the Republicans efforts in 1993. However, the 3 GOP Senators were warned by Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell that their Senate futures would become very dim if they worked on a deal with the Democrats to provide legislation for Obama's signature. Of course, they listened to him and one (Sen Grassley) started preaching about death panels 'that would kill grandma'. The Republicans made token suggestions with the appearance of being interested in passing the ACA although they had no intentions of voting to pass the bill.

[MagSeven]

All these lies, I have no idea what’s going on here!

This!

[Sour Masher]

Back on topic...Rudy Giuliani, Trump's latest consiglieri, comes out tonight on Hannity and declares that Donald himself DID pay Stormy Daniels the $130,000. He just funneled it through Cohen's law firm.

I think that might be more troublesome than if they'd just let it go as they initially stated and paid it out of campaign funds...

I'm so jaded at this point about anything touching Teflon Don. I guess we will see how it plays out. But how would it be WORSE for him if he used his own funds rather than campaign funds?

[dslaw]

The Dems,as part of the Gang of Six (3 Dems/3 Repubs) offered to start with a template from the Republicans efforts in 1993. However, the 3 GOP Senators were warned by Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell that their Senate futures would become very dim

This is what I hate about senator Hatch. In 1993 he was co-sponsor of the Republican bill that had many of the features of Obamacare. The bill was introduced but never got a vote in the Senate. One theory is that it became clear the Clinton's weren't going to get anything presented so the Republicans, who didn't want universal coverage anyway but were simply working on an alternive plan to the Clinton's, just let the bill die. Another theory is that this bill had little chance of passing because most Democrats were lining up behind the Clinton's idea and hard line Republicans weren't in the mood to vote for anything so they wouldn't support either the D or R plan. The truth is probably a little bit of both.

But after Hatch co-sponsored a plan that included (1) An individual mandate; (2) Creation of purchasing pools; (3) Standardized benefits; (4) Vouchers for the poor to buy insurance; (5) A ban on denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition; during the '90s he then decided all these same ideas would cause the destruction of the entire civilized universe or something like that and fought against it in 2009. Two other co-sponsors, Grassley & Lugar, also voted against Obamacare because.... well just because it was a good plan in 1993 but not in 2009. It had nothing to do with a Democrat president pushing the idea.

[Hornsby]

I'm so jaded at this point about anything touching Teflon Don. I guess we will see how it plays out. But how would it be WORSE for him if he used his own funds rather than campaign funds?

He's essentially having to admit that he did indeed have a relationship with Stormy Daniels, otherwise there would be no reason to pay her. That can have all sorts of repercussions, including any kind of prenup that he may have with Melania...

[B-Fly]

He's essentially having to admit that he did indeed have a relationship with Stormy Daniels, otherwise there would be no reason to pay her. That can have all sorts of repercussions, including any kind of prenup that he may have with Melania...

Yes, but it would still be worse if it were campaign funds. Even though there's a legal argument to be made that Cohen's fronting a payoff to keep a mistress quiet until at least after the election could be viewed as a campaign contribution and expenditure, it would be much worse for Trump if a payoff were clearly made with or reimbursed by campaign funds.

[Hornsby]

Yes, but it would still be worse if it were campaign funds. Even though there's a legal argument to be made that Cohen's fronting a payoff to keep a mistress quiet until at least after the election could be viewed as a campaign contribution and expenditure, it would be much worse for Trump if a payoff were clearly made with or reimbursed by campaign funds.

But what would the penalty be? Would it be an actual criminal prosecution, or would it be something like a fine?

I think that we'll find out soon, as it's now being reported that they had wiretaps on Cohen's phone lines...something that's really hard to get, and needs to involve criminal acts, IIRC.

Edit to Correct: ETC: Turns out that it's not actually a wiretap, but something called a pen registry, which simply records the numbers called and calling in.

[B-Fly]

But what would the penalty be? Would it be an actual criminal prosecution, or would it be something like a fine?

I think that we'll find out soon, as it's now being reported that they had wiretaps on Cohen's phone lines...something that's really hard to get, and needs to involve criminal acts, IIRC.

I don't think confirmation of a private payment from Trump or a surrogate to a mistress would likely be prosecuted if no campaign funds were involved, but who knows for sure. Again, it's an argument that can be made, but I worry it's so tangential to the justification for the investigation that it would trigger mass hysteria or even potential violence from Trump supporters if it, in and of itself, becomes the "hook" for any charges against Trump. Everyone already basically knows that he had a consensual extra-marital encounter with Daniels before he even announced his candidacy for president, and that his team paid her to keep it quiet during the election season. I'm not sure what reveal other than clearly improper use of campaign funds (if even that) would be enough to move the needle on public appetite for prosecution or impeachment. I think Trump's bigger concern will be if the Cohen wiretaps involve anything that supports a charge of obstruction of the FBI/Mueller investigation into Russian interference with the election, or any involvement by Cohen in planning or arranging of Russian-backed efforts to interfere with the election.

[revo]

Giuliani's comment "caught many in the White House by surprise," (that old nugget) according to many reports.

[B-Fly]

Giuliani's comment "caught many in the White House by surprise," (that old nugget) according to many reports.

My first instinct when Trump brought on Giuliani was to groan and wish Rudy would go away already, but so far he's proving to be so entertainingly disastrous for Trump and his star-crossed "handlers" in the White House that part of me kind of hopes he sticks around, at least a bit longer than Scaramucci, lol.

[MagSeven]

Cohen's attorney is on record in a few interviews stating that his client, and his client alone, paid out the money to Stormy because he 'liked' DT. No one else, especially DT, was involved in the payment and that he neither received or expected to receive any reimbursement.

I swear this entire administration is nothing but a fragile house of cards, ready to collapse at any time.

[Bernie Brewer]

In the grand scheme is this Stormy thing even important? As someone on Twitter (where if you read you know it’s true) said he wasn’t getting BJs in the Oval Office. What have we really learned that we didn’t already know/heavily suspect? Nothing. He is ethically challenged and morally corrupt. How she got paid (funny my autocorrect changed that to “laid”) is maybe, or maybe not, important. I’m betting not, as he wasn’t elected President when he “dipped his pen in the non-government inkwell” and other than Melania’s vote against his behavior, it appears to have been consensual, between two people who knew exactly what they were doing. He: shtupping a pornstar. She: gettin paid! Pretty well, I might add. I would consider sleeping with Trump for $130,000! Consider.

Or him and Melania, who by the way is still fine, as the kids say.

Who am I kidding. I’m old.

[Hornsby]

In the grand scheme is this Stormy thing even important? As someone on Twitter (where if you read you know it’s true) said he wasn’t getting BJs in the Oval Office. What have we really learned that we didn’t already know/heavily suspect? Nothing. He is ethically challenged and morally corrupt. How she got paid (funny my autocorrect changed that to “laid”) is maybe, or maybe not, important. I’m betting not, as he wasn’t elected President when he “dipped his pen in the non-government inkwell” and other than Melania’s vote against his behavior, it appears to have been consensual, between two people who knew exactly what they were doing. He: shtupping a pornstar. She: gettin paid! Pretty well, I might add. I would consider sleeping with Trump for $130,000! Consider.

Or him and Melania, who by the way is still fine, as the kids say.

Who am I kidding. I’m old.

It is absolutely unimportant in the grand scheme of things, it's nothing more than a sideshow, a somewhat entertaining one. All it really does is to verify another lie...nothing more that I'm aware of. The maneuvering of the money could be something, but that would take a forensic accountant, something that Mueller just happens to have on his staff.

And to Brian's point, a "scaramucci" is a period of 10 days. We'll see if Rudy can last a few more...