President Donald Trump

[Bernie Brewer]

No, I don't think that would be fair...polls rarely work with straight splits. There are those who tend to be agnostic, and those who are undecided. Looks like 42% have an unfavorable opinion, so A 54% favorable view is pretty good...and this is a monthly tracking poll, so the numbers can vary slightly.



https://www.kff.org/health-reform/po...s-to-medicaid/

From the data you posted it looks very much like it is split Down party lines. I assume the polls discount agnostic or don’t cares. But of those polled and offering a response, 42% of view it unfavorably. That’s at least 4 in 10 compared to about 5.5 in 10. But, per your notation, not surprisingly 83% of Dems view it favorably while 78% GOPers view it unfavorably. What am I missing? Independents make up the difference and view it slightly more favorably than not. I’m not arguing one way or the other. I think it’s a good start but I think you all fooling yourself if you think Trump or the GOP will fix what was flawed to begin with. Wishing they would fix it, that’s something everyone agrees on.

[Hornsby]

From the data you posted it looks very much like it is split Down party lines. I assume the polls discount agnostic or don’t cares. But of those polled and offering a response, 42% of view it unfavorably. That’s at least 4 in 10 compared to about 5.5 in 10. But, per your notation, not surprisingly 83% of Dems view it favorably while 78% GOPers view it unfavorably. What am I missing? Independents make up the difference and view it slightly more favorably than not. I’m not arguing one way or the other. I think it’s a good start but I think you all fooling yourself if you think Trump or the GOP will fix what was flawed to begin with. Wishing they would fix it, that’s something everyone agrees on.

I don't think that anyone is arguing that Trump was EVER really going to fix the health care system, or anything else that he and his friends wouldn't profit from personally. That was all election time rhetoric that may have gotten him a few thousand votes, or even more...people hear what they want to hear.

And honestly, 10 points in favor is a pretty healthy margin, and if you swing the Independents over to your side, which seems to be the case, it'll happen eventually. Too many people have tased what it's like to go to take their family member to the doctor and actually get affordable care.

[Bernie Brewer]

I don't think that anyone is arguing that Trump was EVER really going to fix the health care system, or anything else that he and his friends wouldn't profit from personally. That was all election time rhetoric that may have gotten him a few thousand votes, or even more...people hear what they want to hear.

And honestly, 10 points in favor is a pretty healthy margin, and if you swing the Independents over to your side, which seems to be the case, it'll happen eventually. Too many people have tased what it's like to go to take their family member to the doctor and actually get affordable care.

And, we’re in the wrong thread to argue the merits of ACA and health care, which is not a thread I’ve dipped my toe into often or recently as I’m not knowledgeable enough to argue those but I do have my own feelings on the topic. I started commenting after there were comments about what has Trump done to fix healthcare. Why would he fix it? Should he, sure. But why would he. You say he broke it. I’m not seeing it that way, as I see it not having been right from the onset. As for OAs request that we stop the trope about “rammed through congress” you won’t fix it until you accept that, using your poll data, 42% of the country who gave responses to a poll this month think it is was rammed through congress without a single republican vote and it’s still not so great.

[Bernie Brewer]

I don't think that anyone is arguing that Trump was EVER really going to fix the health care system, or anything else that he and his friends wouldn't profit from personally. That was all election time rhetoric that may have gotten him a few thousand votes, or even more...people hear what they want to hear.

And honestly, 10 points in favor is a pretty healthy margin, and if you swing the Independents over to your side, which seems to be the case, it'll happen eventually. Too many people have tased what it's like to go to take their family member to the doctor and actually get affordable care.

Isn’t everything about swinging independents? I suspect if the Dems are able to swing indies in the 2020 election they will fix ACA, assuming they have both houses with 60 votes in the Senste.

[Hornsby]

And, we’re in the wrong thread to argue the merits of ACA and health care, which is not a thread I’ve dipped my toe into often or recently as I’m not knowledgeable enough to argue those but I do have my own feelings on the topic. I started commenting after there were comments about what has Trump done to fix healthcare. Why would he fix it? Should he, sure. But why would he. You say he broke it. I’m not seeing it that way, as I see it not having been right from the onset. As for OAs request that we stop the trope about “rammed through congress” you won’t fix it until you accept that, using your poll data, 42% of the country who gave responses to a poll this month think it is was rammed through congress without a single republican vote and it’s still not so great.

And 40% of the voters totally support Trump...so 40% is really nothing these days. And over 50% think favorable of the ACA, which is really the magic number. And did Trump break it? Not yet, but he's certainly trying his best...

And frankly, in answer to your most pressing question, IMO, he should do everything he can to fix it because it might just be the only thing that would be a positive for his legacy. Not to mention it's the right thing to do...

And there's almost no chance to get 60 seats in the Senate...

[Bernie Brewer]

And 40% of the voters totally support Trump...so 40% is really nothing these days. And over 50% think favorable of the ACA, which is really the magic number. And did Trump break it? Not yet, but he's certainly trying his best...

And frankly, in answer to your most pressing question, IMO, he should do everything he can to fix it because it might just be the only thing that would be a positive for his legacy. Not to mention it's the right thing to do...

And there's almost no chance to get 60 seats in the Senate...

I feel this is a must post when attempting to play Devils Advocate, but, I agree that the President should fix it because it is the right thing to do. But he’ll horse trade and try to leverage it to get something that goes benefit his base. If only his base fully understood this would be to their benefit! But then again, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d live in a perfect world or something like that! We don’t, and I suspect we won’t see a 60 seat majority again in my lifetime.

[OaklandA's]

I thought you said there were plans offered by both Dems and GOP that were worthy of consideration that Trump obstructed. Or were they not bi-partisan?

The bi-partisan plans are for fixes/improvements to the ACA, which some Republicans actually support. These "fix" plans will not be voted on because of Trump.

The plans that Trump and the GOP proposed are not bi-partisan at all. These "Repeal and Replace" plans were so unpopular that they could not pass even though the GOP has control of the House, Senate, and Presidency. For example, the plan where McCain gave his famous Thumbs-Down vote - Trump still complains about McCain's vote in all of his rallies.

[Bernie Brewer]

The bi-partisan plans are for fixes/improvements to the ACA, which some Republicans actually support. These "fix" plans will not be voted on because of Trump.

The plans that Trump and the GOP proposed are not bi-partisan at all. These "Repeal and Replace" plans were so unpopular that they could not pass even though the GOP has control of the House, Senate, and Presidency. For example, the plan where McCain gave his famous Thumbs-Down vote - Trump still complains about McCain's vote in all of his rallies.

And thank God for John McCain. I guess I’m not making clear what I’m saying. I understand that there are repair bills that “some” republicans can get behind. What I’m saying is even a knob like Trump would concede to repairs if he can horse trade for something he wants.

Maybe this will help, probably not. I have an Attorney friend that I work with who told me a story about negotiating with Trump. My attorney friend was on the board of a “multi national organization” that Trump was interested in acquiring. He said Trump came to the initial meeting to negotiate a purchase price and began by making an extremely low ball offer. After making the offer Trump and his team got up and left the meeting. Recognizing that the organization needed to find new investors or sell, they began pursuing Trump. Against my Attorney friend’s counsel, the board began negotiating with Trump in what essentially became a process of negotiating against themselves. He said Trump made no counter offers, knew that the organization was desperate, and he told them all the things that were wrong about it. Ultimately, Trump was using this organization as a stalking horse to acquire another very similar and more famous organization at an under market price. My attorney friend said that although the process went no where, and was humiliating to the bosrd members, ultimately, it was fascinating watching Trump work. Love him or hate him, he is always trading and negotiating. I am not a fan but who know maybe he gets better trade deals, maybe he gets NK to Denuke, maybe he gets a DACA deal everyone can live with. If he does, great. He is still a piece of garage human being but he is our duly and legally elected piece of garabage.

[Bernie Brewer]

I found this interesting regarding the MSM. This is an article from the Nilwuakee Journal Sentinel where a reporter just asked questions of random voters perceptions of the news media.

https://jsonl.in/2Ia8ylW

A lot of reasonable responses of trying to expose yourself to various sources, particularly the sides you don’t ageee with, and then filter it and think for yourself. Not a lot of that going on in the country right now. But then again, maybe there is way more of it than I want to admit. This is one in which I hope I’m wrong.

[dslaw]

I know I said I was taking time off, but I am still lurking about. Sorry to disappoint everyone! And, I'll probably regret chiming in!

Just because I am honestly confused, Are you, Horns or Mith saying that its Trump fault that OBAMAcare doesn't work, or that Trump is responsible for Mith's 200% increase? Without any intention of being snarky, what is it that Trump or the GOP have done, expect tried and failed repeatedly to overturn ACA, in whole or in part, for the last four years, that would cause one to blame Trump for this?

My post was in response to talk of Trump not making health care affordable. I posted my response to show how some people could think that Trump was going to tackle health care and improve on Obamacare due to things he had said. While I personally expected Obamacare to be repealed and to go back to the previous insurance model I could also see how others would expect a better model given what Trump said. I certainly don't give Trump any blame or credit for what happened under Obamacare but instead of trying to make it better, as he said he would, he simply tried the Republican Party line of repeal. I believe he has no plan on insurance other than to let Obamacare die and go back to the old way which suits him and all other members of congress fine as they will all get free health care.

[Bernie Brewer]

My post was in response to talk of Trump not making health care affordable. I posted my response to show how some people could think that Trump was going to tackle health care and improve on Obamacare due to things he had said. While I personally expected Obamacare to be repealed and to go back to the previous insurance model I could also see how others would expect a better model given what Trump said. I certainly don't give Trump any blame or credit for what happened under Obamacare but instead of trying to make it better, as he said he would, he simply tried the Republican Party line of repeal. I believe he has no plan on insurance other than to let Obamacare die and go back to the old way which suits him and all other members of congress fine as they will all get free health care.

Boom! Right there! That bolded last sentence is exactly what should outrage everyone, regardless of tribe or party lines. It is truth. On this I agree with you. None of these elected people are truly motivated because it doesn’t effect them although they all play a good game.

[nots]

And thank God for John McCain. I guess I’m not making clear what I’m saying. I understand that there are repair bills that “some” republicans can get behind. What I’m saying is even a knob like Trump would concede to repairs if he can horse trade for something he wants.

Maybe this will help, probably not. I have an Attorney friend that I work with who told me a story about negotiating with Trump. My attorney friend was on the board of a “multi national organization” that Trump was interested in acquiring. He said Trump came to the initial meeting to negotiate a purchase price and began by making an extremely low ball offer. After making the offer Trump and his team got up and left the meeting. Recognizing that the organization needed to find new investors or sell, they began pursuing Trump. Against my Attorney friend’s counsel, the board began negotiating with Trump in what essentially became a process of negotiating against themselves. He said Trump made no counter offers, knew that the organization was desperate, and he told them all the things that were wrong about it. Ultimately, Trump was using this organization as a stalking horse to acquire another very similar and more famous organization at an under market price. My attorney friend said that although the process went no where, and was humiliating to the bosrd members, ultimately, it was fascinating watching Trump work. Love him or hate him, he is always trading and negotiating. I am not a fan but who know maybe he gets better trade deals, maybe he gets NK to Denuke, maybe he gets a DACA deal everyone can live with. If he does, great. He is still a piece of garage human being but he is our duly and legally elected piece of garabage.

Another example of his negotiating skills was his purchase of Mir-A-Lago. Fascinating stuff

[Bernie Brewer]

Another example of his negotiating skills was his purchase of Mir-A-Lago. Fascinating stuff

I wouldn’t want to be one of his vendors or in any negotiation with him.

[B-Fly]

I wouldn’t want to be one of his vendors or in any negotiation with him.

If denying contractually promised compensation to a vendor and threating that he'll run up your legal bills so high that you'll spend more on your lawyer than I owe you constitutes "negotiation", as opposed to filching.

[Bernie Brewer]

If denying contractually promised compensation to a vendor and threating that he'll run up your legal bills so high that you'll spend more on your lawyer than I owe you constitutes "negotiation", as opposed to filching.

Should I have put the word negotiation in quotes. I thought it was implied.