President Donald Trump

[revo]

Shania Twain said this week she probably would have voted for Trump (she's Canadian and obviously cannot).....and then had to do some quick damage control and issue an apology, LOL.

Just to be clear here -- she said she would have voted for the GUY WHO BECAME PRESIDENT and HAD TO APOLOGIZE FOR IT so as not to lose her fan base. That's how bad Trump is perceived, that not only is he offensive, but anyone who supports him is condoning his behavior and attitude.

[Hammer]

. That's how bad Trump is perceived, that not only is he offensive, but anyone who supports him is condoning his behavior and attitude.

I knew I shouldnt have opened this thread and trust me when I say I wont come back even to respond to this but this is such a dumb comment I am shocked it came from you. I guess those who supported Bill Clinton condone adultery and all other presidents' transgressions were condoned by their supporters.

I say its dumb because you and I have talked about this more than once and most know I dont condone many things he says or does, so this is offensive but hey the narrative sounds good right so go with it.


and for the record, I would vote for Trump again today over Hillary and wouldnt even need to think twice about it.

[Sour Masher]

That's how bad Trump is perceived, that not only is he offensive, but anyone who supports him is condoning his behavior and attitude.

That is my attitude, although unlike Hammer, I do not presume you agree with this--you are merely pointing out the fact that many believe this, and the proof is in the example you give. The proof of your statement is pretty irrefutable. Many have been criticized for expressing support for Trump. He is so polarizing that even expressing support for him associates you with his words and deeds in a way that goes beyond what we often see in politics.

I admit to being in that camp. There is a difference between supporting the office, or the GOP platform he sometimes works for, but if you support the man, you are condoning him. The GOP had other options they could have supported to support their agenda, and they picked the most vile candidate. Not everyone supported him, of course, but those who do support the man, those who "like" him clearly condone who he is, and I cannot reconcile someone who relishes in his behavior and words like swine in slop, cheering his every mean tweet and attack as good people. I'm open to being convinced on that, and I know folks who do fully and happily support him, but I see those people differently than I used to see them. That includes my own mother whose entire worldview is shaped entirely by Facebook--that is her sole source of news, and she refuses, even now to see the economic and political forces that limit and guide her thought processes in that regard.

My mother had a boss that she despises to this day that used to mock her weight and physical appearance, used to treat women in general as sex objects, favored men for promotion, was a bully yelling and talking down to people all the time. In manner and speech patterns he was eerily like Trump. I compared Trump to him during the election and it shook her support for him for a couple of days, but then she was right back to Russian bot talking points about HRC being a murderer and Trump being a great man. I can't talk to her about Trump anymore. He has done and said things that if ANY other person had said and done those things, her past self would have been disgusted by those things, but her support for Trump is unwavering. She is completely blind to any faults in word or deed by the man. And before this election cycle, she was a life-long democrat. She is currently on SSD with various disabilities. Her daughter, my sister, is a single mother of three who also supports her boyfriend who does not work. She relies heavily on government programs to survive (my sister supported Gary Johnson, because he was pro-pot). I just can't get over how much being on Facebook the last few years has radically changed my mother's worldview, not only flipping her to conservatism, in fact, not really flipping her to conservatism, but to Trumpism. She doesn't support conservatives or Republicans as much as she supports Trump. It is perplexing and appalling.

[revo]

I knew I shouldnt have opened this thread and trust me when I say I wont come back even to respond to this but this is such a dumb comment I am shocked it came from you. I guess those who supported Bill Clinton condone adultery and all other presidents' transgressions were condoned by their supporters.

I say its dumb because you and I have talked about this more than once and most know I dont condone many things he says or does, so this is offensive but hey the narrative sounds good right so go with it.


and for the record, I would vote for Trump again today over Hillary and wouldnt even need to think twice about it.

Hey, I'm just saying that she had to issue a public apology for simply saying she would have voted for him.

These are her exact words from her apology:
"I am passionately against discrimination of any kind and hope it’s clear from the choices I have made, and the people I stand with, that I do not hold any common moral beliefs with the current President."

[Hornsby]

Hey, I'm just saying that she had to issue a public apology for simply saying she would have voted for him.

These are her exact words from her apology:
"I am passionately against discrimination of any kind and hope it’s clear from the choices I have made, and the people I stand with, that I do not hold any common moral beliefs with the current President."

LOL...and the best thing, the VERY best thing about her initial statement was the reason that she would have voted for Trump...wait for it... "I would have voted for him because, even though he was offensive, HE SEEMED HONEST". Oh yeah, ol' Honest Don...

[gcstomp]

Hammer does not state why he would support Trump over HRC, would be just a head banging on wall experience for all of us if he did. HRC the character was successfully shaped as a villain by decades of false messaging from Fox as well as a foreign power. She withstood dozens of hours of withering hate politicized questioning under guise of congressional hearings the likes of which Trump would not have survived for even 5 minutes. Trump is a small minded habitual liar who is simply incapable of coming out clean as HRC did even if he has 1/10,000th the questioning under oath she sat for, but lets move on. She absolutely outclassed Trump in every debate, actually Trump did not even attempt to answer questions posed to him, he simply took openings to pursue attack talking points, but as substance takes a back seat to image, that had zero bearing on results.

We all believe we are doing the right things, and that we are smart, and we all think we are the heroes in our story. It is only the distance and perspective of the other that can reaffirm what is truth, and what is self delusion. Trump sees himself as really smart, and knows all the best words. He sees himself as someone who is draining the swamp, and putting the best people in charge. That personal view of his has no weight to truth, and it is from his statements that we can be sure how limited and vile this man is, but it is something beyond his ability to ever see that.

I feel that a Trump supporter simply views the world, and every trump word through such a different filter than my own that we effectively exist in different realities. A trump supporter, to me is akin to embracing some aspect of evil, be it racism, sexism, image over facts, snark over substance, that I see someone with the trump bumper sticker as if they are flaunting an ignorance beyond their sight. But again, as we are all heroes in our own stories, doing the right thing, this is a personal filter shaped by a particular lifetime of input. It is only in that one scene of Scarface where we ever have someone stand up and say they are the bad guy.

In sport we can measure a 96 mph fastball. In life, we cannot definitively measure the good of a man, we can only go by his statements and actions and through our own filter judge. Pol Pot I am sure felt he was the hero of his story as well. But I have no doubt, for my viewpoint, trump is not a good person, not a smart person, and not someone looking out for the overall pop over himself and other uber wealthy.

[Sour Masher]

LOL...and the best thing, the VERY best thing about her initial statement was the reason that she would have voted for Trump...wait for it... "I would have voted for him because, even though he was offensive, HE SEEMED HONEST". Oh yeah, ol' Honest Don...

Is it better to be honest, when you are honestly horrible? Is it better that he is more upfront with his bigotry, racism, misogyny, and petty narcissism? I don't get the at least he is honest refrain I've heard before, because, one the things he is honest about make him horrible in my eyes, and two, as you suggest out, he lies ALL THE TIME.

[Judge Jude]

baseballthinkfactory.org this week added a "pop culture" sports bar-type thread beyond its political thread and the regular baseball stuff.

I would recommend the same here. it seems to work well for them in the early going; more about TV shows, movies, plays, etc, but without the anger

there is a place for all of those angles

[The Feral Slasher]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...cy-really.html

Bump...I think some people should read this over and over and over and over and over again.

[Sour Masher]

Bump...I think some people should read this over and over and over and over and over again.

Yes, it is an interesting article and point, and it is illuminating to a big reason why Trump won. However, I suspect I diverge from you and some other folks on the root causes of the whole, when people don't trust government institutions, they are prone to vote for a someone bashing the systems they no long trust no matter what his other stances premise. 1. while that is interesting research, it isn't the whole story of Trump's success (a point I'm sure we all agree on), and 2. the systems of government that we have are not as broken as most people think. Yes, there are many flaws in government, and even more in our media, but I believe right-winged media outlets, most prominently Fox News, and the rise of more fringe alt-right sources are largely responsible for fostering in many out-sized beliefs in the brokenness of our government and society, which created the perfect opportunity for Trump to rise. They have trumped up for years how all other media lies to everyone, how the liberal government is out to take their guns, trample their religious beliefs and values, take their money, take their very pre-ordained place in the world and give it to others, not for a sense of fairness, but simply to appease their base of minority voters. They have cultivated anger, fear, and anxiety in millions for the entirety of the Obama presidency, and Trump is the fruits of their labors. He played the outsider better than the others, so he won, despite also being an outsider to common decency, intelligence, or preparedness for the esteemed position he sought and obtained. And all of this despite the undeniable facts that the country under Obama was in much better shape than the right made it out to Obama never took people's guns, he didn't disfranchise white people, or Christians. He ushered us through a tough recession--maybe not as well as he might have, but things can also have been worse. Things have not been horrible for most Americans over the last 8 years, but someone FoX News got millions to believe their whole way of life was under constant attack.

[onejayhawk]

Bump...I think some people should read this over and over and over and over and over again.

Why? It's just proof that many still don't get what is going on. More than a year later the writer is scratching his head and wondering why he girl lost.

Liking Trump is an interesting phrasing, as supposed to supporting him as president, or supporting certain aspects of his agenda. I can understand liking some of his actions as president, but it is very hard for me to understand how a good person can "like" someone I consider a bad person, who says and does many bad things (and I'm not talking about saying and doing things that I disagree with politically). Maybe someone here can help me see how folks who claim to be good can like Trump and everything he is, does, says, and stands for. And again, I'm not talking about cutting taxes or conservative judge appointments. I'm talking about him crapping on the first amendment and attacking the press and anyone who defies him, lying, using hate speech, being ignorant of our laws and the respect afforded the judiciary, complimenting murderous dictators, defending racists, etc.

As opposed to hating Trump, which is what you describe.

Do you really want to be associated with the party of hate? That is the direction #theresistance has pointed from the start.

J

[The Feral Slasher]

Why? It's just proof that many still don't get what is going on. More than a year later the writer is scratching his head and wondering why he girl lost.



As opposed to hating Trump, which is what you describe.

Do you really want to be associated with the party of hate? That is the direction #theresistance has pointed from the start.

J

reading comprehension was never your strong suit

[revo]

As opposed to hating Trump, which is what you describe.

Do you really want to be associated with the party of hate? That is the direction #theresistance has pointed from the start.

J

This is as laughable as the 2008 KC Chiefs having one of the greatest drafts in history. When you throw in your doozies, wow, they really are doozies J!

[nullnor]

that was one of the best scenes in scarface.

everyone thinking they are doing the right thing is an interesting topic in general. i think about that all the time.

[nullnor]

i don't think the slate article is saying anything different that's been happening since the beginning of civilization. in every culture you'll probably find a similar story of a population that gets tired of the status quo or takes things for granted or wants to get rid of the king. and then they do but miss the things they had. so they go back and get a king again and the cycle keeps repeating over the course of human history. it's normal. it's fundamental or elementary, it's impossible to not have it. it's the grass is always greener on the other side or seeing how the other half lives. i guess.