President Donald Trump

[Sour Masher]

IMO, they'll get annihilated in the midterms and 2020 as long as the Dems keep up the pressure and get the vote out. So yeah, I do think that moderate GOPers will finally break from Trump...it may be their only way to stay in office.

On this point, I concede, there may be some hope. I guess I take moderate GOPers calculating if standing apart from an overt racist, and everything else that Trump is, as a pretty hollow victory for decency in our country. I hope you are right that it will be the politically expedient thing for them to do, and therefore, they will do it. It still sickens me that will be the primary reason they will do it.

One thing Trump has succeeded in doing to this voter is disenchant me more thoroughly than I ever have been in politicians. I've always been a bit jaded about many of them, but I've never had a Pavlovian negative response to the word until now. The few who truly seem to see themselves as public servants, sacrificing and giving for love of the people are so vastly outnumbered by those are power-clinging golums, it is depressing. So, score a win for the anti-government crowd. I'm sure they are winning a lot of converts from folks who are seeing how bad politicians can be, and how dangerous government power can be.

[Hornsby]

On this point, I concede, there may be some hope. I guess I take moderate GOPers calculating if standing apart from an overt racist, and everything else that Trump is, as a pretty hollow victory for decency in our country. I hope you are right that it will be the politically expedient thing for them to do, and therefore, they will do it. It still sickens me that will be the primary reason they will do it.

One thing Trump has succeeded in doing to this voter is disenchant me more thoroughly than I ever have been in politicians. I've always been a bit jaded about many of them, but I've never had a Pavlovian negative response to the word until now. The few who truly seem to see themselves as public servants, sacrificing and giving for love of the people are so vastly outnumbered by those are power-clinging golums, it is depressing. So, score a win for the anti-government crowd. I'm sure they are winning a lot of converts from folks who are seeing how bad politicians can be, and how dangerous government power can be.

I see your points, and I agree with a lot of them. But the problem with becoming a part of the anti-politician crowd is a simple one IMO, we will never NOT have politicians running things. So the key is to make them as accountable as possible, and to make them adhere to your point of view as much as possible. And that requires participation by the people. This may be the single greatest thing that Trump ends up accomplishing, getting people involved in politics in a positive way.

Making it a government by the people, again.

[Sour Masher]

I see your points, and I agree with a lot of them. But the problem with becoming a part of the anti-politician crowd is a simple one IMO, we will never NOT have politicians running things. So the key is to make them as accountable as possible, and to make them adhere to your point of view as much as possible. And that requires participation by the people. This may be the single greatest thing that Trump ends up accomplishing, getting people involved in politics in a positive way.

Making it a government by the people, again.

Your ability to see a light at the end of this sewage pipe is somewhat inspiring, but for right now, I'll paraphrase your Warren Ellis sig quote--this shitty present continues to offend me.

[nullnor]

i think Trump owes his presidency to mitch mcconnell. i think the same amount of ppl pretty much vote the same every year. it's the independents that decide who wins. Gorsuch was the difference. in a way i guess you could blame Obama. if he had just appointed Garland, Trump would've lost.

i think it's hard to say Trump owes his win to ppl acting racist. Obama got elected. probably a lot of ppl that voted Trump also voted Obama. i do think if any of this legal stuff sticks to Trump, you won't see anyone defending him. perhaps then you'll only see his most hardened supporters.

[nullnor]

Trump lauded delivery of F-52s to Norway. The planes only exist in ‘Call of Duty.’

President Trump caused a stir with his announcement that the United States had delivered F-52 fighter jets to Norway.

Was it a secret advanced jet capable of beating its Russian counterparts? A ruse to fool intelligence analysts?

Neither, it turns out. The “F-52” is a fictional jet only available to fly if you’re a gamer at the controls of “Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare.”

Trump lauded the sale of the fictional planes alongside Norwegian Prime Minister Erna Solberg at the White House on Wednesday

as POTUS he has access to some of the best intelligence than anyone else in the world.. yet likes to get his information from twitter and fox news, and apparently Xbox? lol

..which begs the question when we will be selling more X-wings to South Korea to counter the Norths TIE fighters?

[revo]

Today Trump says "no, I didn't use that language."

A few hours later, Sen. Durbin of Illinois says "oh yes you did. Repeatedly."

[umjewman]

Does it realistically matter at this point whether he said it or not? Is anyone actually on the fence about Trump? I'd be shocked to find out that there were people who actually remain undecided at this point about someone so polarizing (whether you love him or hate him, he's certainly polarizing). Something like this is all of a sudden going to turn the tide?

[revo]

Does it realistically matter at this point whether he said it or not? Is anyone actually on the fence about Trump? I'd be shocked to find out that there were people who actually remain undecided at this point about someone so polarizing (whether you love him or hate him, he's certainly polarizing). Something like this is all of a sudden going to turn the tide?

No, but rhetoric like this can be used to impeach or censure. And he's built up quite the resume of racist, sexist, bigoted rhetoric to make a case from!

[TranaGreg]

Does it realistically matter at this point whether he said it or not? Is anyone actually on the fence about Trump? I'd be shocked to find out that there were people who actually remain undecided at this point about someone so polarizing (whether you love him or hate him, he's certainly polarizing). Something like this is all of a sudden going to turn the tide?

you're right of course, but to Hornsby's point the only people that matter are the rest of the GOP pols. Are they so in bed with him that nothing will change their stance? or can they be swayed by displays of bigotry and massively poor judgement?

[umjewman]

No, but rhetoric like this can be used to impeach or censure. And he's built up quite the resume of racist, sexist, bigoted rhetoric to make a case from!

I truly believe there is no way he's getting impeached. I think people who are hoping for that are chasing a pipe dream that is never going to happen.

[umjewman]

you're right of course, but to Hornsby's point the only people that matter are the rest of the GOP pols. Are they so in bed with him that nothing will change their stance? or can they be swayed by displays of bigotry and massively poor judgement?

I think as long as they're getting what they want from a policy perspective (no more Obamacare, tax reform, cutting spending/entitlements), they're going to just look the other way on those things and make him their useful idiot. Probably not a good long term strategery, but in the short term, they're fine with it.

[Moonlight J]

I think as long as they're getting what they want from a policy perspective (no more Obamacare, tax reform, cutting spending/entitlements), they're going to just look the other way on those things and make him their useful idiot. Probably not a good long term strategery, but in the short term, they're fine with it.

With many of them retiring, they don't really care about the long term. Get what they/their big donors want, get out, and get a high paying lobbying job from said big donors = profit.

[revo]

I truly believe there is no way he's getting impeached. I think people who are hoping for that are chasing a pipe dream that is never going to happen.

It could happen if the Dems take over Congress. But certainly not until then.

[umjewman]

With many of them retiring, they don't really care about the long term. Get what they/their big donors want, get out, and get a high paying lobbying job from said big donors = profit.

You forgot Phase 1: Collect Underpants.

[umjewman]

It could happen if the Dems take over Congress. But certainly not until then.

Yes, of course it could happen if the Democrats take over. But I don't think the Democrats actually mind him in office to be honest. He's GREAT for Democratic fundraising, and has a harder time building a consensus on issues (even tax reform which passed was not an easy sell). Pence might have an easier time building a consensus amongst the Republicans as a more polished politician, even if he's further to the right than Trump.