President Donald Trump

[Redbirds Fan]

While it is obvious that the country is more partisan than ever, I have issue with a seemingly obsessive need to look for ways to make something political, and in finding some connection that could be attributed as somehow related to one party, null that as being partisan. I am thinking of the climate change reality, and the grasping at straws to make it balanced by giving weight to what should not have weight. This is settled science, but media approaches this area with giving equal time to "both sides" as if the science of it is somehow a political pawn.

Same way, multitudes of issues do have a right and wrong, but now we have to play this game of tiptoe around facts, around truth, around right and wrong, reducing everything to politics, and in that reduction spit out that on any particular issue both sides have 50/50 weight.

Yeah, I'm not sure if you agree with me or not. In my original draft the final paragraph was about how their are rights and wrongs and verifiable truths and how we have to take stands. I talked about how we have bastardized reality be pretending there are two sides to every issue and how no matter what happens it becomes a politiical issue. I used Trumpism as the phenomenon which has pushed the issue, and as a justification pointed out how even people who are "on his side" instantly become his enemies and targets of his partisan wrath by doing something he doesn't like or even by offending him personally. He uses his political power to settle private and personal grievances at a rate and in a manner which sets the bar of partisanship at an all-time high.

My personal take is that refusal to recognize the extreme partisanship the Trump administration has unleashed upon the country is just another example "both sides of the story" approach, except in the form of the "both sides do it" bromide.

So if I understand you correctly, we agree that the country has become too partisan, but you are don't think there is a basis to assign responsibility to one group or another for our current state of affairs in this regard. I think that if we look at verifiable facts, we can see concrete examples of why there is increased partisanship. So we disagree on that.

[gcstomp]

i agree with you Redbird.

[baldgriff]

My personal take is that refusal to recognize the extreme partisanship the Trump administration has unleashed upon the country is just another example "both sides of the story"

I think you underestimate how partisan things were prior to Trump. I dont for a minute believe he unleashed anything - he took advantage of what already existed. It is another one of the factors that has led us down this path. It is also - and I know Im beating a dead horse here - just one more example of why HRC was such a terrible candidate. She couldnt sway the centrists enough to get a nominal amount of their votes, in fact she likely did just the opposite.

Holy Crap this is such a shit show.

[Hornsby]

I think that the main issue with the current state of affairs is simply this: In the past, Presidents have pushed their agendas, but never have they been so partisan and dismissive of the other side. We've been a pretty split nation for decades now, but Presidents have always stood above that. They didn't use their bully pulpits to engage in slap fights with the opposition, they didn't actively call out civilians and the press, and they damn sure didn't slag their own intelligence services. Trump is alone in this boorish behavior...he makes W look like a consummate diplomat.

Interesting little fact I came across today, this current Tax Bill that Congress is about to pass is less popular with the public than the tax HIKES under George HW Bush and Bill Clinton...ponder that for a moment.

It's nothing but a last gasp cash grab by the GOP who see that for the next decade, they'll be irrelevant.

[Redbirds Fan]

I think you underestimate how partisan things were prior to Trump. I dont for a minute believe he unleashed anything - he took advantage of what already existed. It is another one of the factors that has led us down this path. It is also - and I know Im beating a dead horse here - just one more example of why HRC was such a terrible candidate. She couldnt sway the centrists enough to get a nominal amount of their votes, in fact she likely did just the opposite.

Holy Crap this is such a shit show.

I'm not estimating anything. I was there, and I have been actively engaged in politics since 1974. I have worked on numerous campaigns, including one Republican for crying out loud. (I was later accused of being biased in favor of the right because of it. Sheesh.)

You give me some examples of candidates not in banana republics who have threatened to have their political opponents thrown in jail, and we can discuss your claim that Trump didn't unleash anything. (If you don't like the "you'd be in jail", "lock her up", etc. example, I'll be happy to give you more examples of historically over the top partisanship from the guy you keep defending.)

[cardboardbox]

I think that the main issue with the current state of affairs is simply this: In the past, Presidents have pushed their agendas, but never have they been so partisan and dismissive of the other side.

yeah, not since the last president.

Its not that Trump is so partisan but that he's an idiot with less impulse control than that of a spoiled toddler.

[The Feral Slasher]

Its not that Trump is so partisan but that he's an idiot with less impulse control than that of a spoiled toddler.

Yeah, Trump is all about himself, don't really think he does anything because he loves the Republican party or hates the Dems.

[cardboardbox]

Yeah, Trump is all about himself, don't really think he does anything because he loves the Republican party or hates the Dems.

Very much agree

[nots]

Yeah, Trump is all about himself, don't really think he does anything because he loves the Republican party or hates the Dems.

Fully agree. In fact, the country club Republican set hates him almost as much as the Dems do. He has his core 33% of diehards, but most of that 33% isn’t going to support the GOP platform when he’s gone.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Yeah, Trump is all about himself, don't really think he does anything because he loves the Republican party or hates the Dems.

On the other hand, he does do things because they say them on Fox News and he watches to learn what direction to take the country. Or because they criticize him on some other show and he lashes back.

That's truly the agenda of our executive branch at this moment: defend the ego of one Mr. Donald Trump.

[baldgriff]

I'm not estimating anything. I was there, and I have been actively engaged in politics since 1974. I have worked on numerous campaigns, including one Republican for crying out loud. (I was later accused of being biased in favor of the right because of it. Sheesh.)

You give me some examples of candidates not in banana republics who have threatened to have their political opponents thrown in jail, and we can discuss your claim that Trump didn't unleash anything. (If you don't like the "you'd be in jail", "lock her up", etc. example, I'll be happy to give you more examples of historically over the top partisanship from the guy you keep defending.)

RF -
I will never be able to match your political activism and engagement. I have not worked on campaigns. So please forgive this view from the outside that may seem to you misinformed. I dont deny that Trump used both, "you'd be in jail" or "lock her up". However, he didnt unleash that upon the world - there were already way to many people that didnt trust HRC, Obama, and other elected officials. Trump was able to take the partisanship and distrust and use it to beat not just HRC, but both parties. He didn’t create the partisanship, he took full advantage of it. He was the outsider with no real party - he couldnt use partisanship because he had no political credibility or clout to wield partisanship. He tapped into the undercurrent of the populace.

He won by understanding that in the world of the common man - there was so much perceived partisanship and distrust of both parties that he just reinforced what was existing. He never said that he would change the partisanship - he only said he would drain the swamp. For many that meant getting rid of career politicians that appear more worried about their under the table back room incomes than actually doing anything meaningful for the country. I didn’t vote for him or his really great ideas – the best ideas.

I DONT LIKE TRUMP - HOW OFTEN DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS??? Of course when anyone here takes any opinion that is contrary to the left’s narrative, well then you must be Trump supporter an alt righter or some other stupid label used to stop the conversation. The partisanship in this country has gone back decades, and whether you like it or not the Clinton’s and our last President were very good at partisanship. Just because I hold a position that doesn’t align with your narrative of Trump unleashing the partisanship doesn’t mean I am defending him. Whether you like it or not, he had a much better read on the pulse of the voting public across the nation, not in the top 10 - 15 metropolitan areas. That pesky electoral college vote count – funny I recall someone on the left side here specifically reminding the righties that they were not going to be fans of the electoral college after the election is done.

I didn’t vote Trump. However, he is my President. You can bitch and whine and continue to complain about what a horrible guy he is. None of that is going to change the fact that Trump won not by unleashing partisanship, but taking advantage of the overall distrust and disdain the general public has for those that are supposed to be representing us. And now we are stuck with Trump.

[TranaGreg]

bg - do you differentiate between the actions he took to get elected and what he has been doing as president of your country? Your explanation covers what he did to get elected ... but what about what he's doing as your country's leader?

[In the Corn]

bg - do you differentiate between the actions he took to get elected and what he has been doing as president of your country? Your explanation covers what he did to get elected ... but what about what he's doing as your country's leader?

Can speak for bg, but in one sense, Trump has been one of the best at keeping his campaign promises...they suck, but he's committed to them, hence his base being so fervently supportive still.

[baldgriff]

Trana -
My contention only dealt with what we as doing pre-election, to take advantage of the partisanship. Is he a blowhard narcissist? Seems very much the case. Its unfortunate that he really had no actual plan on how to accomplish anything he ran on.

I cant stand the political landscape currently - neither side is willing to actually try and find middle ground on anything. Its more about 'our party is in control' so we will do what we want. If he was able to successfully develop a coalition that would bipartisanly support massive infrastructure overhauls and another that pushed for term limits then he could start gaining credibility. Unfortunately, both parties are to busy pointing fingers over the past and he just cant get out of his own way.

He is a bull in a china shop and just cant stop running over the merchandise.

[TranaGreg]

Trana -
My contention only dealt with what we as doing pre-election, to take advantage of the partisanship. Is he a blowhard narcissist? Seems very much the case. Its unfortunate that he really had no actual plan on how to accomplish anything he ran on.

I cant stand the political landscape currently - neither side is willing to actually try and find middle ground on anything. Its more about 'our party is in control' so we will do what we want. If he was able to successfully develop a coalition that would bipartisanly support massive infrastructure overhauls and another that pushed for term limits then he could start gaining credibility. Unfortunately, both parties are to busy pointing fingers over the past and he just cant get out of his own way.

He is a bull in a china shop and just cant stop running over the merchandise.

yeah ... I really can't get over how your electorate simply ignored the bolded section above ... it was so blatantly obvious to anyone paying attention