President Donald Trump

[heyelander]

The polls suggesting that going after Trump is a witch hunt/"fake news", and even the polls suggesting the Mueller investigation is unfair and untrustworthy, do not surprise me as much as this one, that indicates that around 80% of Trump voters think he should stay in office EVEN IF, he really did collude with Russia and that is proven in a way that they can believe. So, basically, they are like whatevs, we don't care what he does. He may have been right when he said he could walk down the street and shoot someone and wouldn't lose his voters.

I just don't get the fervent loyalty of his fan base. Nothing seems to sway them, and he hasn't really done anything special to warrant that sort of lo loyalty on their part.

The system is corrupt, everyone is doing it, the media and the Hollywood elites are all lined up to screw us over, so if our guy can get one over on them, then that's one small victory for us.

If Hillary hadn't been doing something wrong, then it wouldn't have mattered what the Russians had to say.

[Hornsby]

I think I answered it as best I can. I cannot speak for people who think that she should be locked up any more than you can.

BTW, how did your google search go?

My googling was fine, thanks for asking...

[Hornsby]

Couple of interesting notes today on the potential FUTURE Mueller indictments. There are apparently 4 sealed cases numbered between the filings against Papadopoulos and Manafort and Gates. And Papadopoulos was actually arrested in late July, but didn't plead guilty until early October, leading to speculation that he was wearing a wire during that period.

Just a few more things to chew on...

And in response to Sour Masher, his base is solid, and pretty much always will be. They are the disenfranchised, or so they believe. They believe with all their hearts that their country is being taken away from them by the liberals, the media, the minorities, etc. They will probably always number in the 30 plus percent range, no matter how far Trumps actions differ from his words.

[Bernie Brewer]

My googling was fine, thanks for asking...

I’ll take that to mean that you did indeed find that the DNC and our HRC‘s campaign both denied, until they admitted to, funding the dossier.

[Hornsby]

I’ll take that to mean that you did indeed find that the DNC and our HRC‘s campaign both denied, until they admitted to, funding the dossier.

I try to read all sides of the issues, so yes, I knew that those stories existed. And also that the initial dossier was funded by GOP opponents of Trump, and that the Dems just picked it up after the fact.

[Sour Masher]

And in response to Sour Masher, his base is solid, and pretty much always will be. They are the disenfranchised, or so they believe. They believe with all their hearts that their country is being taken away from them by the liberals, the media, the minorities, etc. They will probably always number in the 30 plus percent range, no matter how far Trumps actions differ from his words.

For those who really are disenfranchised (I know some are, but others just perceive they are), it saddens me that they rally around a man like trump. Politicians and the media on both sides need to do better to reach these voters, work for them, and hopefully pull them away from trump and those like him. He represents a lot of scary stuff, and the amount of support he continues to get saddens me. That things got or were perceived to be so bad that people turned to a man like trump doesn't speak well of our country, government, media,education system, etc.

[Hornsby]

For those who really are disenfranchised (I know some are, but others just perceive they are), it saddens me that they rally around a man like trump. Politicians and the media on both sides need to do better to reach these voters, work for them, and hopefully pull them away from trump and those like him. He represents a lot of scary stuff, and the amount of support he continues to get saddens me. That things got or were perceived to be so bad that people turned to a man like trump doesn't speak well of our country, government, media,education system, etc.

I couldn't agree more. The really sad thing is that the Trumpian agenda is aimed at hurting the very people who support him the most. He's tearing down the Health Care system, plank by plank. Every XO that he issues is designed to cut away at the ACA, which he seems hate more than anything else. he's cutting away at the Education system the same way, trying to gut the public schools, instead of improving them. The tax plan is almost universally thought to be beneficial to only the upper few percent, and will eventually hurt all below that level.

The best example of the slight of hand that the GOP is tying to do was presented to me like this: Bill Gates walks into a bar with 50 people in it...the mean net worth of the bar patron is roughly 1 billion. This is statistically accurate, and grossly misleading. That's what the GOP is trying to peddle with the "average" taxpayer getting a $4000 dollar tax break.

[Bernie Brewer]

I try to read all sides of the issues, so yes, I knew that those stories existed. And also that the initial dossier was funded by GOP opponents of Trump, and that the Dems just picked it up after the fact.

As do I, and Thanks for answering. While it may seem it may seem like it, im not tying to be a dick. And, I try read every post in this thread to learn where others are coming from. But we get a heavy dose of the left prespectice and very little from the right (mostly extreme right). But while I try to be objective I admit that I do come at this political discussion thing from the middle right to right.

[Sour Masher]

As do I, and Thanks for answering. While it may seem it may seem like it, im not tying to be a dick. And, I try read every post in this thread to learn where others are coming from. But we get a heavy dose of the left prespectice and very little from the right (mostly extreme right). But while I try to be objective I admit that I do come at this political discussion thing from the middle right to right.

As someone who identifies as middle right, what do you think it means that trump won the GOP nomination? To me, him beating HRC represents a failing on the left that needs to be addressed. I imagine you think think his rise as a Republican represents a failing on the right. Both parties seem fractured and in need of repair. What do you think trump's presidency will mean for the GOP lon term? Will they morph into a party that fits trump more, or will they develop a response/different path away from him?

Also, who does a middle-right fellow like yourself turn to for sensible, moderate conservative news and opinion? The vast majority of right-wing opinion media, especially radio, seems radically right and biased to me, like Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Savage, Jones. These are the biggest names in conservative talk, but none seem to speak to and for moderate conservatives.

[Redbirds Fan]

For those who really are disenfranchised (I know some are, but others just perceive they are), it saddens me that they rally around a man like trump. Politicians and the media on both sides need to do better to reach these voters, work for them, and hopefully pull them away from trump and those like him. He represents a lot of scary stuff, and the amount of support he continues to get saddens me. That things got or were perceived to be so bad that people turned to a man like trump doesn't speak well of our country, government, media,education system, etc.

Here are roughly some of the groups I think became parts of the Trump base:

1. People who consider themselves disenfranchised, which will include a lot of uneducated poor whites.
2. People who believe their country is being taken away from them by the media, the elites, the blacks, the liberals, the immigrants, etc., and who love a good conspiracy theory.
3. The very rich who don't care one way or another about social issues, but believe Trump will sign whatever tax cuts the GOP Congress puts in front of him.
4. The contrarians who either think it would be a neat intellectual exercize to see what impact a Trump presidency would have on our stagnant system, think Trump will have a plum job for them, or believe they will obtain some personal benefit under a Trump presidency. (I lump guys like Bill Kristol and Alan Dershowitz here. They are the most likely class to bail.)
5. People who have lived their lives with little adversity and simply cannot imagine what all the fuss is about. (Why do these blacks want to protest anyway?)
6. Anti-intellectuals and people who lack the ability to reason abstractly. (You can be an intelligent person and still fall into this category, which answers the question why a lot of my friends voted for Trump.)
7. Hillary haters.
8. People who will vote for the GOP candidate no matter who it is.
9. Single issue voters. (This is almost exclusively the anti-abortion crowd. There is no issue upon which Trump has bona fides, but the anti-abortion voters were convinced that he would help them more than Clinton would, which was a reasonable conclusion.)
10. People who went for Trump because they believed his campaign promises.

[Sour Masher]

Here are roughly some of the groups I think became parts of the Trump base:
3. The very rich who don't care one way or another about social issues, but believe Trump will sign whatever tax cuts the GOP Congress puts in front of him.

How rich is very rich? I ask, because I think your list is a good one, but even though it is 10 items long, there are still people who support trump that don't seem to fit entirely in any of the entries. Specifically, I thinking of people like some reality star trump supporters I enjoy watching--Danny Koker (Counting Cars) and Rick Harrison (Pawn Stars). While they might count as very rich, I suspect there are many like them who are not at their level of success and income who feel the same as they do.

I am a big fan of history channel shows in general, and it annoys me that these guys have the positions they do (I know this must sound like a tone def complaint to conservatives, who have to put up with so many liberal stars they like to watch). I recognize that I am not the primary target audience for shows like Counting Cars (I drive a Honda Fit), Pawn Stars, American Pickers, Forged in Fire, etc, and that the majority of those who do enjoy these shows are likely conservatives/republicans. While I don't have a connection to any of these shows--I never had someone who taught me a love of cars, or of collecting, or making things with my hands, but I am still drawn to these shows, and like the people on them, so it is hard for me to wrap my head around what I like in them and what they say in support of trump.

Danny Koker comes across as a very rehearsed and careful man who knows when to turn it on for the cameras, so I don't know who he really is off camera. But his on camera persona is certainly likable, and he seems like a good guy. He is a trump supporter who has spoken several times of how he believes trump is a businessman who will/is good for the country and for business people. He doesn't seem like the sort who is completely oblivious to the suffering of others, but maybe he does fit in the too little adversity'/clueless category. Rick Harrison, who is a well-read, smart fellow, has said the same (although Harrison, unlike Koker, was not initially a trump guy--he only switched after trump beat his candidate, Rubio). I guess he just fits in the very rich category?

There are also people like my mom--not sure where she fits into this list, although she might fit partially into the disenfranchised column as someone living off of social security disability and the occasional bail out from me, and feeling the crunch from no SS raises for several years. I wouldn't call her a single issue voters, but she has gotten pretty pro-life in her later years. She was a life long democrat until the last few years though, and I blame the fact that the vast majority of her social interaction comes from Facebook on most of her current beliefs, so maybe an isolated/manipulated by social media entry is needed.

[Redbirds Fan]

How rich is very rich? I ask, because I think your list is a good one, but even though it is 10 items long, there are still people who support trump that don't seem to fit entirely in any of the entries. Specifically, I thinking of people like some reality star trump supporters I enjoy watching--Danny Koker (Counting Cars) and Rick Harrison (Pawn Stars). While they might count as very rich, I suspect there are many like them who are not at their level of success and income who feel the same as they do.

I am a big fan of history channel shows in general, and it annoys me that these guys have the positions they do (I know this must sound like a tone def complaint to conservatives, who have to put up with so many liberal stars they like to watch). I recognize that I am not the primary target audience for shows like Counting Cars (I drive a Honda Fit), Pawn Stars, American Pickers, Forged in Fire, etc, and that the majority of those who do enjoy these shows are likely conservatives/republicans. While I don't have a connection to any of these shows--I never had someone who taught me a love of cars, or of collecting, or making things with my hands, but I am still drawn to these shows, and like the people on them, so it is hard for me to wrap my head around what I like in them and what they say in support of trump.

Danny Koker comes across as a very rehearsed and careful man who knows when to turn it on for the cameras, so I don't know who he really is off camera. But his on camera persona is certainly likable, and he seems like a good guy. He is a trump supporter who has spoken several times of how he believes trump is a businessman who will/is good for the country and for business people. He doesn't seem like the sort who is completely oblivious to the suffering of others, but maybe he does fit in the too little adversity'/clueless category. Rick Harrison, who is a well-read, smart fellow, has said the same (although Harrison, unlike Koker, was not initially a trump guy--he only switched after trump beat his candidate, Rubio). I guess he just fits in the very rich category?

There are also people like my mom--not sure where she fits into this list, although she might fit partially into the disenfranchised column as someone living off of social security disability and the occasional bail out from me, and feeling the crunch from no SS raises for several years. I wouldn't call her a single issue voters, but she has gotten pretty pro-life in her later years. She was a life long democrat until the last few years though, and I blame the fact that the vast majority of her social interaction comes from Facebook on most of her current beliefs, so maybe an isolated/manipulated by social media entry is needed.

For rich, I was thinking well inside the top 1%, not in terms of income but in terms of net worth.

The list was put together quickly and needs some modifications. You're right that it doesn't cover everyone, although I'm pretty sure that some of the 'stars' that you mention probably do fit into one of more of the categories listed.

[Bernie Brewer]

As someone who identifies as middle right, what do you think it means that trump won the GOP nomination? To me, him beating HRC represents a failing on the left that needs to be addressed. I imagine you think think his rise as a Republican represents a failing on the right. Both parties seem fractured and in need of repair. What do you think trump's presidency will mean for the GOP lon term? Will they morph into a party that fits trump more, or will they develop a response/different path away from him?

Also, who does a middle-right fellow like yourself turn to for sensible, moderate conservative news and opinion? The vast majority of right-wing opinion media, especially radio, seems radically right and biased to me, like Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Savage, Jones. These are the biggest names in conservative talk, but none seem to speak to and for moderate conservatives.

This is a very fair set of questions and I will do my best to answer them. I do agree with your assessment about both parties needing to own thier role in Trumps election. But, it’s getting kind of late here, so I’ll work on my reply in the morning. I owe RB a response to his calling out of me as well. I’ll get to them in the AM.

[Redbirds Fan]

This is a very fair set of questions and I will do my best to answer them. I do agree with your assessment about both parties needing to own thier role in Trumps election. But, it’s getting kind of late here, so I’ll work on my reply in the morning. I owe RB a response to his calling out of me as well. I’ll get to them in the AM.

Oh, you don't owe me anything. I was venting. You can consider mine rhetorical.

[Ken]

For rich, I was thinking well inside the top 1%, not in terms of income but in terms of net worth.

The list was put together quickly and needs some modifications. You're right that it doesn't cover everyone, although I'm pretty sure that some of the 'stars' that you mention probably do fit into one of more of the categories listed.

I agree with above that the list was good but it does need some modifications.

For one, I think the "Hillary" bullet point is likely one of the larger factors. And it extents far past "haters" into a group that didn't particularly like either option we were given this election cycle.