President Donald Trump

[Kevin Seitzer]

Three women have come forward with basically the same story about Bush 41. RB, do you believe they are all doing this for the publicity and all three of them should have remained silent?

[DMT]

Curious Mike how you think Gurriel incident should be handled. If butt grabbing is 'sexual assault', surely his gestures should be disciplined, no? I happen to agree with RB and I also think an immediate suspension is not called for.

I am 100% in favor of pushing forward with eliminating racism and sexism in all its many forms, but the constant 'outrage' after the slightest incidents ultimately hinders that cause IMO.

[cardboardbox]

the constant 'outrage' after the slightest incidents ultimately hinders that cause IMO.

wow, never thought I'd agree with you on anything but here we are agreeing.

Best thing for Gurriel to do is apologize again, say he's an idiot and he did a stupid thing. Then offer a large donation to a charity of Darvish's choice.

And finally, meet Darvish before the game and apologize in person.

If Gurriel is suspended, than so be it, at least if he did what I suggest he would have manned up and tried to clean up his mess.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Curious Mike how you think Gurriel incident should be handled. If butt grabbing is 'sexual assault', surely his gestures should be disciplined, no? I happen to agree with RB and I also think an immediate suspension is not called for.

I am 100% in favor of pushing forward with eliminating racism and sexism in all its many forms, but the constant 'outrage' after the slightest incidents ultimately hinders that cause IMO.

I'm not going to discuss internal company issues on here. I'm pleased Gurriel apologized.

DMT, are you saying that the women in the Bush case should have remained silent? Or that other people are blowing it out of proportion?

[DMT]

I'm not going to discuss internal company issues on here. I'm pleased Gurriel apologized.

DMT, are you saying that the women in the Bush case should have remained silent? Or that other people are blowing it out of proportion?

Understandable.

The latter. Public attention to any issue, no matter how important, is limited. By lumping them all together it dilutes that attention IMO.

[hacko]

I still go back to my question that got all this discussion going. Now you throw in the Gurriel act that have people calling for a suspension . How in the hell did we elect a person like Trump to be the Representative of US. In any discussion with a religious right Trump voter I have still not had any be able to explain how it was OK to vote for Trump The Person as their Leader. If he can't lead your church then you shouldn't be voting for him to lead your country. Especially if you base your vote on religious reasons...

[Redbirds Fan]

Three women have come forward with basically the same story about Bush 41. RB, do you believe they are all doing this for the publicity and all three of them should have remained silent?

I don't think the author was doing it for publicity. It appears that she only came forward because the first woman did so, not in the sense that she now felt liberated to do so, but in the 'it was already out there' sense. I have no problem with her coming forward as she did. In fact, it was probably the best thing in order to put the whole matter in perspective. But again, my posts have not been about her case, but only about the case I have studied...the actress who was triggered by the Bush/Obama photo.

As for the other woman, I simply don't know anything about her case. I'll assume for now she was telling the truth and was motivated by whatever she indicated.

Whether these are the only three women who come forward, or whether there are a hundred more, it doesn't change the individual cases.

Another thing we should consider...the family and the security team knew or should have known that the elder Bush had lost some judgement and was, perhaps, getting a bit senile. They should have taken steps to avoid this sort of thing. They also have some blame here. That doesn't take away any of Bush's blame. It just gives them some to go along with his. Blame is not a zero sum game.

[Sour Masher]

I still go back to my question that got all this discussion going. Now you throw in the Gurriel act that have people calling for a suspension . How in the hell did we elect a person like Trump to be the Representative of US. In any discussion with a religious right Trump voter I have still not had any be able to explain how it was OK to vote for Trump The Person as their Leader. If he can't lead your church then you shouldn't be voting for him to lead your country. Especially if you base your vote on religious reasons...

The most common answer focuses on picking Trump over HRC in the primary--SC appointments and abortion. Simple as that for some voters. Of course, that does not explain why these voters went for Trump over a wide field of more religious candidates.

[Sour Masher]

Another thing we should consider...the family and the security team knew or should have known that the elder Bush had lost some judgement and was, perhaps, getting a bit senile. They should have taken steps to avoid this sort of thing. They also have some blame here. That doesn't take away any of Bush's blame. It just gives them some to go along with his. Blame is not a zero sum game.

Yes, if this is a situation of an elderly man losing inhibitions due to aging related dementia (like Hornsby, I too have seen this before, and sort of assumed this was at least part of the issue with Bush--a 97 year old name Marty, a friend of my grandmother's, turned into a real horn-dog at the end, grabbing and propositioning every women in reach/sight), absolutely, others should have intervened here. Barbara Bush rolling her eyes, as one women reported suggests to me this was a common occurrence; after the first time this happens, the other occasions could have been avoided.

We do seem to be drifting from the thread, so I'll try to connect it--I think a lot of this happens to be coming out now, because of Trump and the discussions his words and acts have brought up. I'm sure it triggered a lot of folks into reflecting on their various experiences with men in power who think and act like Trump. So, maybe some good will come of Trump's presidency.

My trying to differentiate Bush from these other cases comes, in part, from knowing those who work with the elderly and those who work with ED (emotional disturbance) children. When you work with groups prone to poor impulse control related to their mental state like that, you have to think of and call acts like this differently, or you are seeing yourself as a sexual assault victim pretty much every day. I guess some of the intent and power issues in play make me see this as less than/not quite sexual assault.

[hacko]

The most common answer focuses on picking Trump over HRC in the primary--SC appointments and abortion. Simple as that for some voters. Of course, that does not explain why these voters went for Trump over a wide field of more religious candidates.

So what you are saying is that if Hitler or worse supported Anti abortion, Anti gay SC Judge it is alright for a " True " Christian to vote for him. No matter what type of person or his " family values " are?

[Sour Masher]

So what you are saying is that if Hitler or worse supported Anti abortion, Anti gay SC Judge it is alright for a " True " Christian to vote for him. No matter what type of person or his " family values " are?

I am pretty clearly not saying that. But for some people, the answer seems to be yes, since a narcissistic, mysogonistic, ridiculously unqualified, science hating, white nationalist who claims to be antiabortion is our current potus, and he could not have won without the massive evangelical support he got.

I actually think it is a reasonable position if you happen to equate abortion with the mass murder of innocents. But again, that does nothing to explain why these voters supported him in the primaries over all of the other pro-life candidates. There is no answer for that, except undeniable hypocrisy.

[Sour Masher]

Hmm, Amanda Staples has come out with an acquisition of ass grabbing against Bush that dates back 11 years. Bush seemed pretty with it back then so this behavior may predate any dementia related issues.

[hacko]

I am pretty clearly not saying that. But for some people, the answer seems to be yes, since a narcissistic, mysogonistic, ridiculously unqualified, science hating, white nationalist who claims to be antiabortion is our current potus, and he could not have won without the massive evangelical support he got.

I actually think it is a reasonable position if you happen to equate abortion with the mass murder of innocents. But again, that does nothing to explain why these voters supported him in the primaries over all of the other pro-life candidates. There is no answer for that, except undeniable hypocrisy.

The hypocrite word comes out all the time when I talk to Christian Right Trumpers. Pretty much shuts them down. There is no way they can defend his actions And still talk about family values and morality .

[TranaGreg]

so I'm not an American, but conspiracy against the United States sounds kind of like a big deal? ...

[Redbirds Fan]

You're right, it's a pretty big deal.

I lost a bet with my wife. I said Flynn would be the one, she said Manafort.