President Donald Trump

[DMT]

All those calling for a pre-emptive strike are monsters. Sorry if that's offensive to anyone here, but calling for millions to die because you think KJU is irrational is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

[baldgriff]

Someone please tell me - other than our concerns with China - what does NK offer the world or us to keep us from shutting them up?

Again, I dont want to have to fight them and I dont want to install any new government there - but what do they provide us or other countries that gives them a card to play? I apologize if I am being dense here.

[Sour Masher]

Someone please tell me - other than our concerns with China - what does NK offer the world or us to keep us from shutting them up?

Again, I dont want to have to fight them and I dont want to install any new government there - but what do they provide us or other countries that gives them a card to play? I apologize if I am being dense here.

If the answer is nothing--they offer us no incentive to not fight them, then you think we should? Even if we gain nothing by not fighting them, we don't lose much either--again, they are not going to attack us; they are not a clear and present danger to us. We gain nothing and certainly lose a lot by fighting them.

I can't believe people are advocating or assuming as inevitable that we should engage in a multi-trillion dollar war that will leave tens of thousands dead and perhaps millions in misery, because we are annoyed that another country is talking shit about us. This is a country that is about as far from us geographically as possible on this planet. They are a potential threat to some of our allies, but they are not a threat to us unless we force them to be. It is really scaring me that people on here that are generally anti-war are treating N. Korea as a threat we must deal with, going so far as to suggest pre-emptive action is justifiable and necessary. We have been down this road before folks. I can't believe people don't see how this ends, and see why those in power might take us there (it ain't for the benefit or safety of us common folk).

Edit: Also, brushing aside how against this China would be is foolish as well. China wants the buffer N. Korea provides. They may support N. Korea in a conflict, at least indirectly, prolonging it and costing more lives and money. And they would do whatever they could to ensure that whatever government replaces the current one is also anti-west, so it will continue to be a buffer for them. This war is highly unlikely to end with a unified Korea or have any positive outcome for us. It MAY, eventually, make things a little better for the people of N. Korea, but what will it do for us? Nada. It will cost us lives, suffering, money, and solidify the fears of our enemies that we are a meddling watch dog for the world that needs to be brought down a peg so we don't come for them next.

[cardboardbox]

All those calling for a pre-emptive strike are monsters. Sorry if that's offensive to anyone here, but calling for millions to die because you think KJU is irrational is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

I'd be fine with just killing Kim.

[cardboardbox]

If the answer is nothing--they offer us no incentive to not fight them, then you think we should? Even if we gain nothing by not fighting them, we don't lose much either--again, they are not going to attack us; they are not a clear and present danger to us. We gain nothing and certainly lose a lot by fighting them.

I can't believe people are advocating or assuming as inevitable that we should engage in a multi-trillion dollar war that will leave tens of thousands dead and perhaps millions in misery, because we are annoyed that another country is talking shit about us. This is a country that is about as far from us geographically as possible on this planet. They are a potential threat to some of our allies, but they are not a threat to us unless we force them to be. It is really scaring me that people on here that are generally anti-war are treating N. Korea is a threat we must deal with, going so far as to suggest pre-emptive action is justifiable and necessary. We have been down this road before folks. I can't believe people don't see how this ends, and see why those in power might take us there (it ain't for the benefit or safety of us common folk).

Would you rather wait for them to nuke Hawaii? California?

[baldgriff]

My prior statement was this:

Honestly, I have no desire to put boots on the ground there or anywhere. If I was 100% that we could shoot down any rocket he tried to send our way - I would probably just let him keep blustering and just keep him as contained as possible. At some point though that place is either going to implode or explode. Remember Im the guy who doesnt believe in being the police for this world or spreading democracy through use of the gun. That said, pre-emptive may become the only real option and that does not mean we send a nuclear payload their way.

If KJU obtains nuclear capability that can reach us and continues to threaten it - do we continue to ignore the possibility unless we know we can shoot down his attempts. I am not advocating pre-emptive strike. If their primary trading partner wasnt China I dont think anyone would take this guy seriously.

[Sour Masher]

Would you rather wait for them to nuke Hawaii? California?

If you took the time to read any of my posts, including the ones I took the time to write in response to you, you would know that I emphatically do not believe they would ever do that, unless we attack them first. And if you took the time to read up on their regime and on Un, I believe you would come to the same conclusion. The idea that they would just randomly nuke us is totally absurd. It would not happen and the false possibility of it happening is being used to get us to once again pre-emptively strike a country. And somehow we will believe we are justified in starting yet another war.

[baldgriff]

At some point if a fly keeps bothering you - do you use your fly swatter?

I know its a simplistic analogy - but eventually if you keep poking the bear - the bear will wake up and hit you.

[Sour Masher]

At some point if a fly keeps bothering you - do you use your fly swatter?

I know its a simplistic analogy - but eventually if you keep poking the bear - the bear will wake up and hit you.

It isn't just a simplistic analogy, it is a wildly inaccurate one. A better one would be, if there is a beehive 6500 miles away from you, but it has internet access and keeps talking shit about you, should you go 6500 miles, spend trillions of dollars, and ensure the death of untold people, to go punching at that bee hive. Sure, you will get all stung up, and that bee hive was not and never would be an actual threat to you if you didn't travel 6500 miles to engage it, but at least that beehive will know not to talk shit about you anymore.

[baldgriff]

So you are absolutely willing to gamble that KJU with a nuclear capability wont ever use it?

[baldgriff]

Again - I am not trying to be obtuse - I just want to understand other peoples point of view.

[Sour Masher]

So you are absolutely willing to gamble that KJU with a nuclear capability wont ever use it?

I don't see it as a gamble at all. He has nukes now btw, as do many other countries. No one uses them as anything but a deterrent. That is why he wants them. To keep us from doing exactly what we are doing now. He wants them for the same reason a lot of gun advocates want a fire arm--for protection from invaders. Again, not saying his regime isn't horrible. They are. But his own people are the ones he is a danger to, not us. N. Korea getting long range nukes is bad because it hurts us long term in terms of leverage against lesser bad things he might do, and we should do anything and everything we can of direct military conflict to slow or stop them for doing that, but it doesn't mean we have to worry about him nuking us. That is "fake news."

[heyelander]

At some point if a fly keeps bothering you - do you use your fly swatter?

I know its a simplistic analogy - but eventually if you keep poking the bear - the bear will wake up and hit you.

how many american and N. Korean lives did you just equate to a fly?

[Sour Masher]

how many american and N. Korean lives did you just equate to a fly?

Not to mention S. Korean lives. Their loses might be the largest in a war.

[baldgriff]

Cripes...................

AGAIN - I DONT WANT TO GO TO WAR!!!

I DONT WANT WAR!!

I DONT WANT WAR!!!


IF KJU did not have nuclear capability and China as his trading partner - he would have no chips to play at all.

I am fine with leaving him alone. That seems to have worked for a fair amount of time. However, I dont want to hear about a nuclear rocket being shot down. Keep him contained and quiet - is about the best we can have.