President Donald Trump

[The Feral Slasher]

89% are right.

I didn't look at results...but I have a good guess

[Bernie Brewer]

Saw this on twitter and it made me laugh

https://twitter.com/davidsirota/status/884911085152866304

What percent chance is there that US outrage about foreign election meddling in our politics will curtail US meddling in foreign politics?

Lol. I was just talking about that with someone. I get that the whole alleged collusion aspect of this is important to flesh out, but who are we to be outraged with interference with our elections? I think we should be too, but... Haven't we done this with Central and South America or in the Middle East? Ask Daniel Noriega, Fidel Castro, Jean-Claude Duvalier, and others. Oh wait. They're dead.

This LA Times story is somewhat interesting on the topic. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...ry.html

The U.S. also attempted to sway Russian elections. In 1996, with the presidency of Boris Yeltsin and the Russian economy flailing, President Clinton endorsed a $10.2-billion loan from the International Monetary Fund linked to privatization, trade liberalization and other measures that would move Russia toward a capitalist economy. Yeltsin used the loan to bolster his popular support, telling voters that only he had the reformist credentials to secure such loans, according to media reports at the time. He used the money, in part, for social spending before the election, including payment of back wages and pensions.

Now is this also Collusion? Just asking?

[GwynnInTheHall]

You fucking guys.

You don't care if Trump was fluffed by the Russians.


Because America meddled in other elections.

Well fuck you.

FUCK YOU.


Yes we are a shitheeled democracy that should flail ourselves because we suck and WE DO.

But you either work to move forward or you make excuses to stay where we are.


I won't apologize for being vitriolic.

YOU apologize for being reticent. This is ALL your fault every one of you in here.



This is my LAST post and you can claim it's a cop out, but I'll check back in 2019 and if none of you are embarrassed for your support of this shitasitic adminiistrsntion, well then eat shit because you should be.


Trump is a douche.

If you support him you're a douche as well.

Hillary was the reason Trump is in office.

Hillary is a douche

You Are as well if you supported her.

The DNC and all to you asshats who supported her are complicit.

67.5

[gcstomp]

67.5?
Your HRC hatred has been consistent, frantic, often vocalized, but every inch misplaced. Your drunken swear filled rants do not lend themselves to effective argument. HRC is the one political character that has had a 30 year smear campaign against her but hasn't actually done anything other than devout her entire working life to helping millions of people, nevertheless she has been effectively villainized.

No one was a bigger HRC supporter than Bernie in the run up to election, other than every scientist who feared dismantling of epa, and every higher education professional who feared the amending of truth and facts in lieu of a new world order of idiocracy. It was never a mystery that Trump is simply what he always has been. The single worst possible person you could have in office, someone who has spent an entire lifetime helping no one, at the expense of enriching himself, profoundly ignorant, a compulsive liar, and viciously uncaring to the 99% of population, in favor of a handful of billionaire cronies, such as his worst possible examples of his hand selected cabinet. Trump is similar to Putin, except one is not an imbecile puppet and the other is our President, installed like a widget to diminish US, which has happened already in the world stage where the G19 + 1 demonstrated such.

Trump is a stooge, his circle guilty of lies, collusion, and arrogance, and yet I don't think we would be much better off with Pence. But hey, Supreme Court, and the stripping away of decades of hard earned civil rights of the disenfranchised case by case is all worth it.

[fuhrdog]

I think Trump is the worst thing to ever hit politics, but jeesh....could someone report to aisle 2376 with a mop....cleanup in aisle 2376.

[Bernie Brewer]

i found this interesting, not that it's the same thing necessarily but if true isn't this collusion as well? And while the Ukraine is not our "sworn enemy" its troubling to me.

http://politi.co/2jBNetH

Donald Trump wasn’t the only presidential candidate whose campaign was boosted by officials of a former Soviet bloc country.

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.

[Redbirds Fan]

i found this interesting, not that it's the same thing necessarily but if true isn't this collusion as well? And while the Ukraine is not our "sworn enemy" its troubling to me.

http://politi.co/2jBNetH

It certainly sounds like something worth a look.

Questions to ask would be 1) what was the illegal conduct by the Ukrainians, 2) what did the U.S. actors do to encourage or facilitate it, 3) what relationship did those actors bear to the hrc campaign, etc. I would hate to see Trey Gowdy forget about the President and spend his time chasing after his white whale again.

[Bernie Brewer]

It certainly sounds like something worth a look.

Questions to ask would be 1) what was the illegal conduct by the Ukrainians, 2) what did the U.S. actors do to encourage or facilitate it, 3) what relationship did those actors bear to the hrc campaign, etc. I would hate to see Trey Gowdy forget about the President and spend his time chasing after his white whale again.

I agree on all points. It's probably not collusion but is it politics as usual? And, if so, then it troubles me. The DNCs hands are not clean. There was another part I found interesting.

Merkel, who has served as an election observer in Ukrainian presidential elections dating back to 1993, noted there’s some irony in Ukraine and Russia taking opposite sides in the 2016 presidential race, given that past Ukrainian elections were widely viewed in Washington’s foreign policy community as proxy wars between the U.S. and Russia.

“Now, it seems that a U.S. election may have been seen as a surrogate battle by those in Kiev and Moscow,” Merkel said.

Maybe, and I say only maybe, this provide some insight into why the Russians would be interested in backing Trump over Hillary.

[Redbirds Fan]

I agree on all points. It's probably not collusion but is it politics as usual? And, if so, then it troubles me. The DNCs hands are not clean. There was another part I found interesting.



Maybe, and I say only maybe, this provide some insight into why the Russians would be interested in backing Trump over Hillary.

I can't agree here. I think the Russians were anti-Hillary 100% from the beginning. Being pro-Trump was incidental to that.

I think it might be more fair to say that this could provide insight into why Ukraine might have been interested in backing Hillary.

[Hornsby]

I agree on all points. It's probably not collusion but is it politics as usual? And, if so, then it troubles me. The DNCs hands are not clean. There was another part I found interesting.



Maybe, and I say only maybe, this provide some insight into why the Russians would be interested in backing Trump over Hillary.

According to the article that you linked, it seems like the Ukraine was responding to a fear that a Trump Administration would leave them on the outside looking in, as Russia would take a stronger position as a US "ally". Russia was already all in on Trump, as they knew that HRC wasn't going to be as flexible with them.

Russia’s meddling has sparked outrage from the American body politic. The U.S. intelligence community undertook the rare move of publicizing its findings on the matter, and President Barack Obama took several steps to officially retaliate, while members of Congress continue pushing for more investigations into the hacking and a harder line against Russia, which was already viewed in Washington as America’s leading foreign adversary.

Ukraine, on the other hand, has traditionally enjoyed strong relations with U.S. administrations. Its officials worry that could change under Trump, whose team has privately expressed sentiments ranging from ambivalence to deep skepticism about Poroshenko’s regime, while sounding unusually friendly notes about Putin’s regime.

[Bernie Brewer]

According to the article that you linked, it seems like the Ukraine was responding to a fear that a Trump Administration would leave them on the outside looking in, as Russia would take a stronger position as a US "ally". Russia was already all in on Trump, as they knew that HRC wasn't going to be as flexible with them.

I agree. It's well documented that Putin did not want to see HRC elected. And in a sense of you want to destabilize the US Government, why not back a guy who is, well, Trump-like. I'm merely attempting to present a contrarian perspective because nothing about this is logical.

But, is it possible that the Crimea events are the real cause and the US showed strong support for the Ukraine. Are these events not somehow retaliatory against each other.

[Bernie Brewer]

I can't agree here. I think the Russians were anti-Hillary 100% from the beginning. Being pro-Trump was incidental to that.

I think it might be more fair to say that this could provide insight into why Ukraine might have been interested in backing Hillary.

Chicken or the Egg. I still don't think the Russians were pro-anyone. I agree they were definitely anti-HRC.

[TranaGreg]

... I still don't think the Russians were pro-anyone... .

Huh? Did you read the same things everyone else did yesterday?

[Bernie Brewer]

Huh? Did you read the same things everyone else did yesterday?

Yup, sure did. Where did you see anyone in saying Russia saying will do anything to get you elected, anything, just ask? What I'm saying is I don't believe Russia is pro anyone other than being pro-Russia/Putin. And, I suspect Putin felt that because of his dislike for Hillary, anyone would be better including an undisciplined, inexperienced, egotistical, maniacal guy like Trump.

[TranaGreg]

“We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump.”

- from the joint CIA/FBI/NSA report in Jan.