President Donald Trump

[chancellor]

Bernie and I have been trying to figure out the world for a few years. I can vouch for him as a stand-up guy.

Damn straight. Another thing we agree on.

[chancellor]

At first I wasn't interested in joining, but once I learned that there is no middle ground and you have to either believe Putin is hell bent on wiping America off the face of the earth or believe he is an American hero I just decided to side with Donald and Vlad. I haven't looked back.

You'd turn into a pillar of salt, so that's a wise plan.

[Hornsby]

At first I wasn't interested in joining, but once I learned that there is no middle ground and you have to either believe Putin is hell bent on wiping America off the face of the earth or believe he is an American hero I just decided to side with Donald and Vlad. I haven't looked back.

So what is it you really believe? The evidence is now getting to the tipping point that the Trump people have at the very least ATTEMPTED collusion with the Russians to influence the election. The Son, the Son-in-Law, and the campaign chairman were all in a meeting where they were promised incriminating evidence to use against Clinton. Are you OK with this kind of behavior?

[gcstomp]

Todays storyline, No one is all bad, that Charles Manson guy, I understand he was a fan of artist Bob Ross, the guy known for painting happy tree-scapes.

Stephen Bannon, the guiding voice that shaped the alt-right movement, via the guiding narrative of Breitbart , is clearly known as a solidly racist, other ist, xenophope calling for isolationism, and distrust of media. Now, to point this out, you get to hear, hey, you cant hope to win an election by calling out someone like that, no one wants to be called those names.

One of his famous quotes, "The media has zero integrity, zero intelligence, and no hard work. You're the opposition party. Not the Democratic Party. You're the opposition party. The media's the opposition party." Trump has brought the call to distrust media as a handy every day tool, calling reporters liars at every opportunity. Despite Trump easily being an off the chart habitual liar, was it NYT that broke down his top 1000 lies in chronological order? But this idea is taking hold, a good percent one party actually thinks mainstream media is telling lies, and Trump is truthful.

But I digress. The question, Is Putin really a bad guy? We now have this idea taking hold that maybe he isnt such a bad person, and that collusion between Trump surrogates and Putin to win an election is not such a biggie. We can say, he Putins opposition has a tendency to disappear or drop dead, or jailed on trumped up charges, clearing a path to re-election of Putin. Note Russia is not so much a true government as a kleptocracy, Putin and a handful of oligarch billionaires plunder the resources for personal gain. Estimates are Putin has a net worth of north of 200 billion dollars, from a public servant salary of a couple hundred k, in a country whose entire gdp is about equal to spain.

Putin kills adversaries, killed more than 60 journalists who were critical of him in past few years, robs his country blind for benefit of himself and his cronies. Putin has outright used force to annex addition to Russia, as well as as employed networks of hackers who have shaped worldwide elections to better serve his world narrative. Watch FOX now, and you really get sold the goods that lies are simply truths yet to be amended, words have no weight, collusion itself maybe isnt illegal, and Putin maybe isnt all bad.

[Redbirds Fan]

So what is it you really believe? The evidence is now getting to the tipping point that the Trump people have at the very least ATTEMPTED collusion with the Russians to influence the election. The Son, the Son-in-Law, and the campaign chairman were all in a meeting where they were promised incriminating evidence to use against Clinton. Are you OK with this kind of behavior?

This points out exactly my problem with the matter. I read Kellyanne Conway's and Sarah Huckabee Sander's defenses of the meeting, and they really seemed to miss the point.

I will accept as true that D/J/P got no meaningful information out of the meeting. I will accept as true that the Russian lawyer never had any information on Hillary, but only wanted to talk to them about Russian adoptions. I will not accept as true that any campaign officials would have taken this meeting.

Bear in mind that D/J/P are supposed to be brilliant businessmen and strategists. Nobody in their positions would take a meeting unless they knew who they were meeting and what was on the agenda.

Meeting a Russian lawyer to obtain secret information about Hillary? If they weren't colluding, is wasn't for lack of trying.

[Hornsby]

This points out exactly my problem with the matter. I read Kellyanne Conway's and Sarah Huckabee Sander's defenses of the meeting, and they really seemed to miss the point.

I will accept as true that D/J/P got no meaningful information out of the meeting. I will accept as true that the Russian lawyer never had any information on Hillary, but only wanted to talk to them about Russian adoptions. I will not accept as true that any campaign officials would have taken this meeting.

Bear in mind that D/J/P are supposed to be brilliant businessmen and strategists. Nobody in their positions would take a meeting unless they knew who they were meeting and what was on the agenda.

Meeting a Russian lawyer to obtain secret information about Hillary? If they weren't colluding, is wasn't for lack of trying.

You'd know better how it may stand up in court, but it certainly seems to meet the Dictionary definition of Collusion:

collusion
noun col·lu·sion \kə-ˈlü-zhən\

Secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose acting in collusion with the enemy

And remember, they lied about the meeting(S), so did VP Pence. Which would go to the deceitful portion of the definition.

[Redbirds Fan]

You'd know better how it may stand up in court, but it certainly seems to meet the Dictionary definition of Collusion:



And remember, they lied about the meeting(S), so did VP Pence. Which would go to the deceitful portion of the definition.

DJr. lawyered up today. I'm still hoping for the call from Ivanka.

I'm betting we don't see as many tweets from Don.

[Hornsby]

Well, there it is...NY Times tonight, also the lead on Drudge.

WASHINGTON — Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.

The email to the younger Mr. Trump was sent by Rob Goldstone, a publicist and former British tabloid reporter who helped broker the June 2016 meeting. In a statement on Sunday, Mr. Trump acknowledged that he was interested in receiving damaging information about Mrs. Clinton, but gave no indication that he thought the lawyer might have been a Kremlin proxy.

Mr. Goldstone’s message, as described to The New York Times by the three people, indicates that the Russian government was the source of the potentially damaging information. It does not elaborate on the wider effort by Moscow to help the Trump campaign. There is no evidence to suggest that the promised damaging information was related to Russian government computer hacking that led to the release of thousands of Democratic National Committee emails.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-russia-email-candidacy.html

[The Feral Slasher]

So what is it you really believe? The evidence is now getting to the tipping point that the Trump people have at the very least ATTEMPTED collusion with the Russians to influence the election. The Son, the Son-in-Law, and the campaign chairman were all in a meeting where they were promised incriminating evidence to use against Clinton. Are you OK with this kind of behavior?

My recent posts had nothing to do with Trump/Russia collusion, rather I was commenting on the belief that Russia's prime goal is and has always been the destruction of the United States.

[GwynnInTheHall]

My recent posts had nothing to do with Trump/Russia collusion, rather I was commenting on the belief that Russia's prime goal is and has always been the destruction of the United States.

So what do you believe their goal is?

As has been noted, Putin has jailed or killed most opposition, voted against US interests in the UN, pretty much dont; give a shit about civil rights (see LGBTQ and religions they disagree with), continually support regimes who perpetrate violence against the US.

I mean sure, it'd be NICE to have better relationships with countries who constantly work against us, but do you really TRUST them not to take advantage of our willingness to give them a chance?

I guess I'm not seeing what you're selling here FS.

Is Russia and Putin our Enemy or Ally?

[Bernie Brewer]

Damn straight. Another thing we agree on.

Can you and Redbirds Fan come and talk to my significant other? After 20 years she is still looking for solid references regarding me!

[Redbirds Fan]

Can you and Redbirds Fan come and talk to my significant other? After 20 years she is still looking for solid references regarding me!

The fact that she has devoted 20 years to the project says a lot.

[Bernie Brewer]

The fact that she has devoted 20 years to the project says a lot.

It's probably 21, but who's counting? I.e. The need for references.

[onejayhawk]

The fact that she has devoted 20 years to the project says a lot.

I tell people I'm not very good a marriage. I've only done it once and haven't got it right after decades of trying.

J

[The Feral Slasher]

So what do you believe their goal is?

As has been noted, Putin has jailed or killed most opposition, voted against US interests in the UN, pretty much dont; give a shit about civil rights (see LGBTQ and religions they disagree with), continually support regimes who perpetrate violence against the US.

I mean sure, it'd be NICE to have better relationships with countries who constantly work against us, but do you really TRUST them not to take advantage of our willingness to give them a chance?

I guess I'm not seeing what you're selling here FS.

Is Russia and Putin our Enemy or Ally?

Again, I don't know why it has to be framed that Russia and Putin can only be an enemy dedicated to our absolute destruction or our ally. Clearly Russia has long been our enemy/rival, that doesn't mean they have any realistic hope at destroying us. I think it is more likely that Putin is interested in Money and Power than any desire to see us destroyed. The desire for money and power will naturally create tension and conflict with America whose foreign policy also is run by elites who are fond of power and money.

And since when did jailing domestic opposition and poor civil rights record mean you can't be an ally of the United States. I guess Saudi Arabia has a strong civil rights record and is supportive of religious tolerance and LGBTQ rights ?

I would be interested in more info on the regimes Russia is supporting that are continually perpetrating violence against the U.S.

I guess to sum it up, yes Putin is a horrible human being. That doesn't mean that he is working to destroy the United States, or that he has any capability to do so without unacceptable consequences. I think there is enough to criticize Putin and Trump for that there is no need to embellish or exaggerate.