Supreme Court of the United States

[Ken]

Its unfortunate that this guy has been tried in the court of public opinion and has had to prove his innocence.

Is it really? This is not some private citizen, he's nominated to be a supreme court judge.

I would think we would want the public to be very aware of his background.

[baldgriff]

I want the public to be aware of a background that can be substantiated with more than I remember a hallway and a bedroom. This process is forcing the burden of proof to be on the person being accused. Whether in a court of law or a conversation here on RJ - the accuser has to bear the burden of proof. Kavanaugh is being forced to prove he is not a sexual predator. He has provided letters of reference from multiple women, his hiring record appears to be supportive of women and providing women opportunities for advancement. His work ethic has never been questioned. His performance in the courts as a judge have been from all appearances positive and evenly handed.

Yet here we are.


Why am I led to believe this is a political hit job?

It seems that the ranking member of the committee withheld this information from the entire panel for almost a month, during the time the FBI was actively completing the background check.
It seems that the ranking member of the committee (or someone in her office) may have leaked the letter from Ms. Ford (against the wishes of Ms. Ford).
The Dems are now calling for an FBI investigation - which only delays the process - and provides no real definitive answer as to whether or not he did this. Again, this could have been brought up by the ranking member when the FBI was doing their background review.

I just heard this one - but it seems that two men have come forward indicating that they were the ones that have done this thing:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/polit...gbz?li=BBnb7Kz


All of this to say that - for those saying we are holding a "high bar" as to who we allow in - the bar that is being set for what is allowable as evidence against him is really low.

[nots]

I found Dr. Ford to be credible.
I found Judge Kavanaugh to be credible.
I am wholly unimpressed with the way this has been handled by both the Democrats and the Republicans.
Not sure where we go from here.

[baldgriff]

i am wholly unimpressed with the way this has been handled by both the democrats and the republicans.
Not sure where we go from here.

this!!!!

[Sour Masher]

For those questioning the credibility of Ford, who has already had her life completely turned upside down by this, just as Kavanaugh has, why, if she is just following there to lie and ruin Kavanaugh, was she so careful in her description to specify that she feared he might suffocate her to death in his effort to silence her, but that would have been inadvertent. She specifically emphasizes that while she could not breath and was afraid she'd die, she thought that was an inadvertence by-product of Kavanaugh trying to keep her quite. If all she wanted to do was lie and make Kavanaugh look as bad as possible, wouldn't she have said that Kavanaugh was purposefully suffocating and trying to kill her? Why would she accuse him of trying to rape her, but be so careful to make sure it was clear she did not think he was trying to suffocate her on purpose?

For that matter, everyone who thinks she is just lying and this is all a sham, why didn't she say he succeeded in raping her? Why didn't she make this event even worse? Why not make him stone cold sober with a malicious smile and evil in his eyes. Why not make up that he mocked her and tortured her? As bad as this account is, if you are making up the most vile account you can to bring a man down, the Dems could have come up with something better/worse than a young drunk Kavanaugh attempting and failing to force himself on a girl.

Finally, I have to ask the folks here--who here would sacrifice your finances, your home, your privacy, subject yourself to threats of violence and ridicule--just to bring down someone from the other party who would just be replaced by someone similar anyway? Everyone in this thread is pretty politically invested, but no one is doing that. No one is going to give up so much to falsely malign one man without any personal benefit. Although, if Dr. Ford ends up buying her own island soon, I'll concede I was duped and she was paid millions to lie. Short of that, or some other evidence of a big pay off or attempt to extort Kavanaugh, I'm gonna believe this woman who has caused herself and her family so much disruption by doing this.

[Sour Masher]

comment on FB

It's a thoughtful post with a lot of truth in it, I think. But while I also see the bit where a lot of guys think they may have approached this sort of behavior, or think, "there but for the grace of God go I" I imagine few men did or would go so far as to turn up the music, get physically rough, cover a girls mouth as she screamed, etc.

I can see there being a knee jerk reaction from some based on a fear that past incidences in their own life where a young man tried to coerce a girl into something getting put forth/interpreted as an assault, but for me this case is very clearly different from the coercion that some guys may worry about being conflated into the #metoo movement. I mean, Ford's account, if believed, is a pretty clear cut case.

[mjl]

for what it's worth, I don't know if he did it, but he did a hell of a lot of evading and possibly lying about his drinking. There are more than a few people willing to attest to that.

[Sour Masher]

for what it's worth, I don't know if he did it, but he did a hell of a lot of evading and possibly lying about his drinking. There are more than a few people willing to attest to that.

Yeah, that was surprising and perplexing. He revealed himself to be a liar about something he didn't need to lie about, really. In the process, he undercut his credibility on the actual issue at hand.

[Teenwolf]

for what it's worth, I don't know if he did it, but he did a hell of a lot of evading and possibly lying about his drinking. There are more than a few people willing to attest to that.

Yeah, the whole "I have a weak stomach and I puke all the time" line of defense was extremely weak.

[onejayhawk]

for what it's worth, I don't know if he did it, but he did a hell of a lot of evading and possibly lying about his drinking. There are more than a few people willing to attest to that.

Maybe, but if that is the focus of happened today, he's in.

J

[Sour Masher]

What part of that is difficult to believe? It is literally their standard procedure.

Several of her statements support the idea that she was encouraged to come forward. She is now certain of thigs that were cloudy before. Her high profile lawyer is pro bono (compare Manafort). She lives in one of the most politically active enclaves of California. The so called polygraph test was not properly monitored and recordings are not available. There is much to suggest an elaborate put-up job.

J

What does Ford get out of it? Would you give up your home, drain your bank accounts, deal with threats and attacks, put your family at risk just so your political team gets to take down one man only to be replaced by a clone? What is Ford getting out of this to give up so much?

[nots]

What does Ford get out of it? Would you give up your home, drain your bank accounts, deal with threats and attacks, put your family at risk just so your political team gets to take down one man only to be replaced by a clone? What is Ford getting out of this to give up so much?

Her Go Fund Me is over 500k right now. She has paid a steep price to be sure, but it isn’t going to be a financial one.

[Sour Masher]

Her Go Fund Me is over 500k right now. She has paid a steep price to be sure, but it isn’t going to be a financial one.

But she could not have known that when she came forward, and so that could not have been a motive for her to fabricate claims against Kavanaugh. Not saying you are saying this, but it is absurd to suggest her long game was to make mad bank through a GoFundMe drive. My point was she was risking everything to do this. Yes, it turns out she may not hurt herself financially, but it was still a big gamble to go through this. I think it is crazy to suggest someone of her standing would do this because DNC operatives convinced her to.

[Redbirds Fan]

A couple of observations on what I thought would be a non-event:

1. Did not know that Dr. Ford first brought this accusation to the newspaper and her Congressional representative on July 7th, two days before Judge Kavanaugh was nominated.
2. Was not surprised that the GOP Senators abandoned their "female assistant" strategy.
3. Was surprised by the markedly non-judicial temperament displayed by Judge Kavanaugh, angry, aggressive and disrespectful to the Senators.

I still think Kavanaugh will clear the Committee and narrowly pass the Senate, but I think his performance will damage his reputation as a jurist even among those who did not believe Dr. Ford. I understand that he thinks he is being rogered, but for crying out loud the man is a Circuit Judge and he was on a partisan diatribe. He has practically guaranteed that a number of the litigants who go before the Court will ask that he recuse, and attach a copy of the transcript of his opening statement in support.

[Sour Masher]

It is just so weird to me that so many people believe Ford is capable of lying about something this big, with little motivation or benefit to her, yet are unwilling to believe Kavanaugh is lying, when he certainly has all of the motive in the world to do so.

I'm not saying that women have not made false accusations against men before, but it isn't a common thing, and almost all cases have something more going on--e.g. extortion, revenge, mental imbalance. There is not evidence of any of that with Ford. You'd have to be a sociopath to do what she is doing if it did not happen. Statistically, it is very unlikely she is lying (not impossible, but very unlikely). All Kavanaugh would have to be to lie about the assault not happening is a normal human being. Almost anyone, when faced with the consequences of their bad acts and no hard evidence against them, say they did not do those bad acts. Without evidence of the above circumstances under which one might bare false witness against another, logically, the more likely liar in this scenario is Kavanaugh, by a lot. Like if you were gonna bet on which of these two is lying in Vegas, you'd get like 100 to 1 odds of it being Kavanaugh.