Highball Scoring Changes

[Hornsby]

How about, instead of that, we say that any player that you acquire via trade during the season can't be kept? That way we (probably) don't have to worry about vetoes also.

You need to clarify that Mike...any player on any side of a deal?

[Hornsby]

http://archive.fantasysports.yahoo.c...nba/2013/29364


You say it happened in this league, but you do not expect it to happen again. Odd.

I have witnessed it many times, though mostly in baseball. As was noted during the season, the scarce keepers lends to this type of manipulation. If there is no rule, then it's a winning play, but detracts from the enjoyment of the league.

I would like a formal rule that all trades must be reasonable without reference to keeper value.

J

Thanks for the link J...I think that's what we're getting at here with a "reasonable" deal. I think that getting, say Wiggins in the middle of the season for someone who's a 2nd rounder can be construed as reasonable, as long as it helps my team in the future. With a keeper league, you need to be concerned about the future of your team, IMO.

[mjl]

Thanks for the link J...I think that's what we're getting at here with a "reasonable" deal. I think that getting, say Wiggins in the middle of the season for someone who's a 2nd rounder can be construed as reasonable, as long as it helps my team in the future. With a keeper league, you need to be concerned about the future of your team, IMO.

no, trading for Wiggins for a second rounder is nowhere close to reasonable "without reference to keeper value" unless Wiggins is already putting up a 18/8 every night.

My suggestion is that no player who is involved in a trade during the season can be kept. No other explanation should be required. It's an absolute rule.

Admittedly this does make it so that the keeper element is only relevant to the draft and pickups, but if that's required to keep the peace, that's fine with me.

[Hornsby]

no, trading for Wiggins for a second rounder is nowhere close to reasonable "without reference to keeper value" unless Wiggins is already putting up a 18/8 every night.

My suggestion is that no player who is involved in a trade during the season can be kept. No other explanation should be required. It's an absolute rule.

Admittedly this does make it so that the keeper element is only relevant to the draft and pickups, but if that's required to keep the peace, that's fine with me.

Honestly, I think that we can keep the peace in this league now without resorting to such drastic measures, but I'd like to hear others input on the subject.

And while Wiggins may not be putting up 18 and 8 in his rookie year, it's not far fetched to think that by the 2nd half of his soph season, it's reasonable.

Hell, if we can keep the RJEL intact for seasons without it blowing up over trade issues, anything is possible.

[Moccasin]

Honestly, I think that we can keep the peace in this league now without resorting to such drastic measures, but I'd like to hear others input on the subject.

Hornsby, you ask for inputs, then when people give you their inputs you blow them off by disagreeing and saying you would like others inputs. This is exactly how the vetoed trade panned out for you last season.

I was willing to go into the league this season knowing there would be no way I could vote to veto any trades, because history has shown that when a trade in this league is vetoed, it's highly likely that it would instigate a dispute, and disputes take away from the fun of playing. I even had no problem with you commissioning the league. Other than our different opinions of what constitutes a fair fantasy trade, you're obviously a good person; and up until you and I disagreed on trade veto's, we've always got along fine. But I won't ever play in any fantasy league if the commissioner makes changes to the rules without at least getting a feel from the other league members on the change. Most of the leagues I've participated in vote on rule changes, then rule changes don't actually take affect until after the current season is completed.

[OaklandA's]

Here is a link to last year's final rosters:

http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/27807/lastseason

[Hornsby]

Here is a link to last year's final rosters:

http://basketball.fantasysports.yaho...807/lastseason

Thanks...that's perfect!

[onejayhawk]

Thanks for the link J...I think that's what we're getting at here with a "reasonable" deal. I think that getting, say Wiggins in the middle of the season for someone who's a 2nd rounder can be construed as reasonable, as long as it helps my team in the future. With a keeper league, you need to be concerned about the future of your team, IMO.

Exactly backwards.

Wiggins for a 2nd rounder is disposable. The deal has to make sense if you cannot keep Wiggins.

J

[Hornsby]

Exactly backwards.

Wiggins for a 2nd rounder is disposable. The deal has to make sense if you cannot keep Wiggins.

J

Which totally defeats the purpose of a keeper league, which seems to be the opposite of what people want. The question becomes what type of keeper league do we want to be? Some have proposed expanding keepers, to this point, nobody has expressed any desire to eliminate keepers. So we have to find a middle ground somewhere that hopefully will make all of us somewhat comfortable, or uncomfortable, with the final result.

[Riff Raff]

Keepers via only draft seems much to me. In 25 years of fantasy i've yet to see a league where you can't keep players you trade for. Personally, I am not a fan of this proposal.

[onejayhawk]

Which totally defeats the purpose of a keeper league, which seems to be the opposite of what people want. The question becomes what type of keeper league do we want to be? Some have proposed expanding keepers, to this point, nobody has expressed any desire to eliminate keepers. So we have to find a middle ground somewhere that hopefully will make all of us somewhat comfortable, or uncomfortable, with the final result.

Don't be melodramatic. It is just one avenue closed off. You still have the draft and WW. Some of the best keepers in every draft were UDFA, eg Larry Sanders.

This misunderstanding is the basis of the problem. It partially restricts the ability to trade for keepers. In a league so many elite players off the keeper list, it is necessary. We cannot afford Carmelo to be traded for Goran Dragic, or even Andre Drummond.

We don't need to say that no traded players can be kept, just trades involving picks from the first three rounds.

J

[Hornsby]

Don't be melodramatic. It is just one avenue closed off. You still have the draft and WW. Some of the best keepers in every draft were UDFA, eg Larry Sanders.

This misunderstanding is the basis of the problem. It partially restricts the ability to trade for keepers. In a league so many elite players off the keeper list, it is necessary. We cannot afford Carmelo to be traded for Goran Dragic, or even Andre Drummond.

We don't need to say that no traded players can be kept, just trades involving picks from the first three rounds.

J

There's nothing closed off yet, all ideas are simply suggestions that need to be vetted, that's what these discussions are all about. Mike has an idea, Simon has another, you have an opinion and I have have one. So far there has been no real consensus other than we don't want the dissention that happened last season. I don't mind the idea of limiting keepers somewhat, it's just finding that happy medium.

BTW, Dragic's current rank is 21, and Carmelo is 8th...seems like a pretty fair deal to me.

[onejayhawk]

There's nothing closed off yet, all ideas are simply suggestions that need to be vetted, that's what these discussions are all about. Mike has an idea, Simon has another, you have an opinion and I have have one. So far there has been no real consensus other than we don't want the dissention that happened last season. I don't mind the idea of limiting keepers somewhat, it's just finding that happy medium.

BTW, Dragic's current rank is 21, and Carmelo is 8th...seems like a pretty fair deal to me.

If you could not keep Dragic, I don't see anyone making that deal. For sure, no one would have made it last season.

I think there is a consensus that trades should have comparable current season value. How to enforce it is the question. You seem to be the lone holdout.

J

[Hornsby]

If you could not keep Dragic, I don't see anyone making that deal. For sure, no one would have made it last season.

I think there is a consensus that trades should have comparable current season value. How to enforce it is the question. You seem to be the lone holdout.

J

No, so far we have several different ideas on the table...that's it. And that's my point exactly about dealing for players who may not look equal at the exact moment of the deal...players develop. So a deal that looks like it's a bad deal can even out pretty quickly. Alphabet may turn out to be an absolute monster for the Bucks this season...and thankfully, I CAN keep Dragic, a result of a deal that was panned last season.

[onejayhawk]

No, so far we have several different ideas on the table...that's it. And that's my point exactly about dealing for players who may not look equal at the exact moment of the deal...players develop. So a deal that looks like it's a bad deal can even out pretty quickly. Alphabet may turn out to be an absolute monster for the Bucks this season...and thankfully, I CAN keep Dragic, a result of a deal that was panned last season.

You confuse me. Both of those are arguments against your position.

J