Originally posted by Trautdiggity
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So, who are you madder at? The players or the owners?
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They're both too rich to give a **** about, but if I had to side with someone-- it'd be the owners-- go figure.If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Originally posted by eldiablo505- I disagree that people don't buy jerseys, etc. just based on the player and not the team. Perhaps that's true in areas that have pro football, but it most certainly isn't in other areas. Around here, people like the Broncos and Cowboys, generally speaking, but it's individual players that get a lot of play on the merchandise front. Most fans, at least around here, are pretty casual fans and tend to like winners and strong personalities. The devotion to specific teams is far less that Revo implies.
Sure, specific players may drive merchandise sales, but frankly, that's about it.
The Jets made the AFC Championship game two straight seasons. Who's the star there? Giants fans are fanatical about their team. Is it because of Eli Manning? Ahmad Bradshaw? Some Giant fans were on a 33-year waiting list for season tickets until last season. The players they had on the team had very, very little to do with that reasoning.
NFL clubs, for the most part, sell out in good years and bad, in years where they have a ton of stars and years where they have none.
Football, more than ANY other US sport, is driven by the game itself and is far less about individual personalities or players.
- I also disagree with the notion that playing in the NFL for a job is a "privilege", at least in any sense that any job anywhere is a "privilege". I guess you can look at it that way but all employees at every job in this country deserve the same kinds of protections --- protection from unsafe conditions, discrimination, etc. Just as there are very, very few people who could operate a particle collider, there are also very, very few people who could play football professionally. The fact that either field requires a college degree does not lessen the value of its employees. Just the opposite, I'd argue.
Playing football is not a privilege, but playing in the NFL most certainly is.
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Originally posted by revo View PostPlaying football is not a privilege, but playing in the NFL most certainly is.
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I'm with the owners.
I cannot go to my boss and demand 50% of his profits, Micro soft employees cannot and I'm guessing 99% of the people here cannot either. And then after I demand half their cash say oh by the way I do not want to work before 10am not work later than 2pm and i do not want to take phone calls between 11am and 1pm. The players now want half the cash, less practice, less hitting and less OTA'S. Yes any union can try for these things but I willing to bet they rarely ever get even close to anything like that.
Players are employees period. There is always the next big RB, QB, DB coming along and if the current employees do not want the job someone will. If you do not want the job go do something else you have an education (excluding most of your football factory players--they might be able to fill out a THE Mc'Donalds app). If you want to make the rules and the bigger piece of the pie then go out and start a league, a business or whatever. The only thing I was with the players on was no 18 game schedule and thankfully that is gone. Bring on the Salary Cap, Salary floor and a rookie pay scale. I hope the players lose a ton in the this deal.
I feel this way for Baseball and Auto workers, labors etc. Unions were meant to get fair wages, safe working conditions and employees not being abused (working conditions hours) not to take half the pie or get a janitor $32 a hour for pushing a broom, protecting employees that steal from employer etc. Unions are needed but they have far exceeded their original intention.Its not what you've got. Its what you give.
Its not the life you choose. Its the life you live--TESLA
Princess Kate-Kate Marie Hrischuk 9/12/00-1/27/07
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Originally posted by Vecmizer View PostI'm with the owners.
I cannot go to my boss and demand 50% of his profits.
Just as a reference point, here are some numbers for the percentage of operating expenses that are spent on employee salaries in some other industries:
Health Care - 52%
For-Profit Services - 50%
Education - 50%
Durable Goods Manufacturing - 22%
Mining/Oil/Gas - 22%
Clearly, the industries that have lots of capital equipment expenses spend a smaller percentage on employee salaries.
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Originally posted by OaklandA's View PostI'm not sure I get the point you are trying to make. Even if you consider playing in the NFL a "privilege," does that mean that the owners have the right to unilaterally impose any type of salary and work conditions that they want?
Let's not kid ourselves here. No current NFL player salaries are being affected for the worse --the salary cap offered was going up by $18m per year. Rookie salaries will be affected, but the players want this. This is not like 1960s MLB where owners gave players pay cuts for hitting .280. These guys are making a small fortune.
And what "work conditions" do you mean? The 18-game season is out the window. Outside of this, how are work conditions being negatively affected?
IMO the players are coming across like grossly-overpaid prima donnas. It's comical to see Brady, Manning & Brees, making a collective $80m a season, so pissed off.
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Originally posted by OaklandA's View PostJust as a reference point, here are some numbers for the percentage of operating expenses that are spent on employee salaries in some other industries:
Health Care - 52%
For-Profit Services - 50%
Education - 50%
Durable Goods Manufacturing - 22%
Mining/Oil/Gas - 22%
Clearly, the industries that have lots of capital equipment expenses spend a smaller percentage on employee salaries.
Here's a report that shows the average dental office (and dental specialists) pays 18%-22% on salaries. Where are you coming up with Health Care paying 52%?
And your numbers seem to be cloudy, since the majority of those salaries include the owners, which would make up the lion's share of any small business wage expense.
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F**k the NFL
Both sides can kiss my ass. Football can disappear for all I care."I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."
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Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View PostThey're both too rich to give a **** about, but if I had to side with someone-- it'd be the owners-- go figure.
I'm just here for the baseball.
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Originally posted by revo View PostIMO the players are coming across like grossly-overpaid prima donnas. It's comical to see Brady, Manning & Brees, making a collective $80m a season, so pissed off.I'm just here for the baseball.
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Originally posted by revo View PostWhere did you come up with these figures?
In your link, those percentages are listed as a percentage of professional fees. The numbers I posted are listed as a percentage of operating expenses - that's why the numbers are so much higher.
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