*** VD 13 Commentary Thread ***

[Ken]

He wasn't good enough to sign and deal with all.the crap ? Haven't really thought about it much

Apparently not since no one signed him...

The conspiracy angle just doesn’t make sense.

[The Feral Slasher]

Apparently not since no one signed him...

The conspiracy angle just doesn’t make sense.

Wish i had him on my VD squad

[The Feral Slasher]

Apparently not since no one signed him...

The conspiracy angle just doesn’t make sense.

the fact that no one signed him isnt really evidence that there was not a conspiracy to not sign him

[Bene Futuis]

The same offseason that Bonds got jobbed by the owners was one in which Elijah Dukes, he of 6 arrests at the time, get signed to a contract. Honestly, I've never really bought the "circus" argument. Not with Kaepernick now and most definitely not with Bonds back then. And in case it needs to be said, I'm about as far away from a Bonds fan as a human being can get. I am, though, highly supportive of labor and highly suspicious of owners, particularly those ones who have a long and sordid history such as MLB's.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I mean, '08 Barry Bonds was surely collusion (right?), although that predates your MLB time. I'm guessing if it still exists, and I have no real evidence that it does whatsoever, it's kept tightly under wraps. Written documentation of that kind of thing would be hugely scandalous. Maybe it's just me tilting at windmills since surely a powerhouse like the baseball union would sniff it out. Then again, I sniffed out the fact that the world is flat just by checking out some YouTube videos when all those fancy nerds at NASA couldn't even figure it out for themselves.

Edit: MLB's problematic history with collusion raises suspicion when we have weird offseasons like this one.

With Bonds I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the commissioner's office leaned on any owners who were interested. Which is more blackballing than collusion, but has the same effect and I would assume is against the CBA/law.

As far as current day, what I know for a fact regarding two teams is that the owner gives a payroll budget and otherwise leaves the GM and his advisors the freedom to negotiate whatever contract offers they want with agents, without interference. One owner gives virtually no guidance at all and the other will occasionally give his opinion on a player but will still tell the GM that he should use his best judgment even if he disagrees with the owner. In no case has the owner made either a specific or general recommendation about contract length or dollars for a specific player or a group of players.

I know what implicit guidance from the commissioner's office or ownership looks like in other areas, so I'm not naive about how it could happen if people wanted it to, without there being evidence for an arbitrator or a court of law. I just don't see it happening.

[The Feral Slasher]

With Bonds I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the commissioner's office leaned on any owners who were interested. Which is more blackballing than collusion, but has the same effect and I would assume is against the CBA/law.

I haven't thought much about Bonds in a long time. Like, Bene, i am not a fan. But it does seem like he was a still a very valuable player so it's strange that he wasnt signed. For whatever reason. Seems like someone could have had a spot for him if not for some sort of agreement or dictate. Like Bene I am also highly supportive of labor and not a fan of owners/management in general.

[Bene Futuis]

With Bonds I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the commissioner's office leaned on any owners who were interested. Which is more blackballing than collusion, but has the same effect and I would assume is against the CBA/law.

As far as current day, what I know for a fact regarding two teams is that the owner gives a payroll budget and otherwise leaves the GM and his advisors the freedom to negotiate whatever contract offers they want with agents, without interference. One owner gives virtually no guidance at all and the other will occasionally give his opinion on a player but will still tell the GM that he should use his best judgment even if he disagrees with the owner. In no case has the owner made either a specific or general recommendation about contract length or dollars for a specific player or a group of players.

I know what implicit guidance from the commissioner's office or ownership looks like in other areas, so I'm not naive about how it could happen if people wanted it to, without there being evidence for an arbitrator or a court of law. I just don't see it happening.

Fair enough and you'd certainly know better than I. Interestingly, this very topic was at issue in my labor law class in law school. Collusion is remarkably easy to pull off in a closed franchise environment like baseball's. But yeah, unlike other instances of collusion this offseason just might be management wising to the immense long-term risk of long-term contracts. And if the big hitter clubs know that most, if not all, smaller market teams will never make a Rangers-to-ARod offer, then they can sit back because they know demand has been severely diminished. Of course, collusion is all the easier when there are fewer participants.

[The Feral Slasher]

Do Make Bonds Leave.

[hacko]

All I know is back in 75 they all colluded to keep me out with my smooth lefty swing and 65 mph fastball the bastards. I think they were anti redheads.

[The Feral Slasher]

All I know is back in 75 they all colluded to keep me out with my smooth lefty swing and 65 mph fastball the bastards. I think they were anti redheads.

H would have been even stronger in the letter drafts. Its a real shame

[Bene Futuis]

It's interesting reading the Bonds / collusion articles that are out there - plenty of ammo on both sides of the "was there collusion?" discussion. I'm sure my perspective is colored (red!) by my knee-jerk reactionary belief that if and when management gets an opportunity to screw over labor, they gleefully do so. Workers of the world unite!

[The Feral Slasher]

It's interesting reading the Bonds / collusion articles that are out there - plenty of ammo on both sides of the "was there collusion?" discussion. I'm sure my perspective is colored (red!) by my knee-jerk reactionary belief that if and when management gets an opportunity to screw over labor, they gleefully do so. Workers of the world unite!

Hi Five ! Labor is so beaten down, it's really sad and not a topic for VD13 comment thread. Also not a topic for Hot Buttons. Sigh....

[The Feral Slasher]

I grew up strongly anti-union, but went on a historic white collar strike about 20 years ago. The Slasher is nothing if not unpredictable

[The Feral Slasher]

VD13 comment thread is now the longest in the modern VD era. Still 10 rounds to go too. Woot !

[Bene Futuis]

I grew up strongly anti-union, but went on a historic white collar strike about 20 years ago. The Slasher is nothing if not unpredictable

If you ever want to read an amazing fiction book set during the formative days of the labor movement in the U.S., check out In Dubious Battle by John Steinbeck. Just an incredible book, imo.