*** VD 13 Commentary Thread ***

[Ken]

I have to keep reminding myself that it's not my job to set the record straight for the world

Correct, you just need to set the record straight for me.

[The Feral Slasher]

Did you ever get any ice cream?

Indeed....it was deloyshus

[Kevin Seitzer]

I'm going to pull this over here because I don't necessarily want to jump in on the main thread on this, but I thought this was a thoughtful comment and wanted to respond.

I realize it's very liberal of me, but blaming lower-ranking video guys and assistant coaches doesn't appeal to me much. Though if you were talking about 40-game suspensions for Altuve, Bregman et al, I'm most definitely with you.

Agree with you on Hinch, though I can't imagine why a team would want to bring that on themselves.

Do you assess the same punishments for the pitchers as for the hitters? For the rookies who were there for a few days or weeks as for the veterans who were there all year? For the hitters who had the trash can bangs while they were batting (Bregman, Correa, Springer, Beltran, Gurriel, Gonzalez, Gattis, etc.) as for those who didn't (Altuve, Reddick, McCann, Kemp)?

I don't assume you'd answer yes to that, but I think any theoretical suspension framework would have to work through those questions.

Also, suspensions for players like Charlie Morton, Dallas Keuchel, Marwin Gonzalez, J.D. Davis, Max Stassi, Teoscar Hernandez, and others who ended up on other teams throughout the league could end up perversely helping the Astros organization more than hurting it.

[heyelander]

I'm pretty sure I've given out the most negative reputation on the site.

Does negative reputation work like positive, in that the person giving it also has a chance to get some... So Wayne, I see you gave Revo negative reputation for suggesting that the Outfield are legends of Rock. As a bonus, you are getting some negative reputation too!

[chancellor]

Do you assess the same punishments for the pitchers as for the hitters?

No, while they indirectly benefitted from the hitters doing better, I'm not aware of any that were directly involved. Now, if the investigation uncovered pitchers that directly helped the video people in putting the pieces of the puzzle together, I'd be game for some level of suspension for them.

For the rookies who were there for a few days or weeks

No. It would be difficult enough for a rookie to buck a career veteran like Beltran, but an assistant coach like Cora? No way, that'd be a career ender. I could be convinced they rated some level of wrist slap if they lied during the investigation.

for the veterans who were there all year? For the hitters who had the trash can bangs while they were batting (Bregman, Correa, Springer, Beltran, Gurriel, Gonzalez, Gattis, etc.) as for those who didn't (Altuve, Reddick, McCann, Kemp)?

I'd definitely level much more serious suspensions on the active veterans. That said, as the Commissioner's report noted as did the person who counted trash can bangs, other signals (clapping, whistles) were used in addition to the trash can bangs so I'm not sure the veterans other than Kemp really were as innocent as the press indicated. I'll admit my belief of Carlos Correa defending Altuve is....well, I just don't believe him, and I'll leave it at that.

However, let's assume you're right and the other four were less to not involved. A 40-game suspension for the egregious offenders and 0-10 games for the less egregious to non-offenders seems fair to me. From what I know, that would not violate any contract provisions with the MLB players union, though I'm sure they'd appeal.

Also, suspensions for players like Charlie Morton, Dallas Keuchel, Marwin Gonzalez, J.D. Davis, Max Stassi, Teoscar Hernandez, and others who ended up on other teams throughout the league could end up perversely helping the Astros organization more than hurting it.

I agree with your point, though the reasoning to me for leveling a serious suspension on Marwin Gonzalez would be to send a message to both the players and other teams that if you cheat in this way, you'll take a financial hit AND if you're a free agent, teams will pay less for you since you'll probably be facing a serious suspension and not be available.

A point I left out was the lack of punishment for Jim Crane. While MLB could not fine the Astros further, there is no reason Crane could not have been suspended for an extended period of time. Of course, one might argue that suspending Jim Crane from all Astros baseball activities would....help the Astros. However, the buck stops with the owners, and I think a year-long suspension for Crane would have been a very good message.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Thanks for the answers. Makes sense to me.

I could be convinced they rated some level of wrist slap if they lied during the investigation.

This is one thing they told all of us, and my understanding is they told the players the same, which is that if we lied to the investigators or hid anything from them, they would bring the hammer down on us with all the power they had. I don't know the testimony of others, but I gather from questions I was asked that many other people shared everything.

If you look at people who have recently been banned from baseball for life, one thing they shared in common was hiding evidence and/or lying to the commissioner.

[The Feral Slasher]

my girls are in love with Corey Seager. His legs "swang like a buffalo". Somewhat concerning as a parent.

[heyelander]

reading some articles from our survey vendor on team efficiency. Here's the start of one:

The MLB All-Star Game: a once-a-year spectacle celebrating the best in baseball. With a lineup of all-stars taking the field, each team member is the number one player in the league at his position: the best pitcher on the mound, the strongest hitter in the batter’s box, and the most skilled catcher behind home plate. Yet, there’s a reason why the Midsummer Classic is only played once a year. All-star teams (on paper) aren’t always ultra-successful (in practice).

Prioritizing a roster of expertly-skilled individuals can only take teams so far. For real teams, in baseball as well as in business, success is less about assembling a group of the absolute best than optimizing the best of what your team has to offer. Just like players on the baseball diamond, teams in business learn how to read each other, communicate effectively, and make judgment calls to figure out which player to “throw the ball” to at any given time. For lasting, meaningful success, and to achieve their collective goals, the most effective teams use a combination of each person’s individual strengths and an understanding of how best to work together.

I'm pretty sure this is complete bullshit, but thought I'd ask you all. 9 game series, who wins, either league's all-star team or the WS champion? I'm pretty sure All-Star pitching alone would dominate the series.

[The Feral Slasher]

reading some articles from our survey vendor on team efficiency. Here's the start of one:



I'm pretty sure this is complete bullshit, but thought I'd ask you all. 9 game series, who wins, either league's all-star team or the WS champion? I'm pretty sure All-Star pitching alone would dominate the series.

yeah, I'd go with the all stars. In football or basketball might be a different story, but i have a hard time thinking that the team aspect of baseball is a big part of the outcome. Seems like much more that pitcher vs. hitter matchups determine the outcome.

[Kevin Seitzer]

All Star team wins almost every game. Only exception might be if the WS team gets an absolutely dominant start from its pitcher.

[Kevin Seitzer]

That's if the All Star team cares. If they don't care about winning then it could be closer.

[The Feral Slasher]

The march continues....

they are marching still ?

[The Feral Slasher]

Do the Amish have buttons on their keyboards or mice?

they have buttons on their mice

[The Feral Slasher]

Water is quite literally falling from the sky

it happens sometimes

[The Feral Slasher]

Remind me to wear gloves next time I cut one of those...over 24 hours later and my fingers and hand are still burning

the burning is gone. must have been the ice cream