*** VD 13 Commentary Thread ***

[Bene Futuis]

whatever...if you think it will get better with the Dems that's fine. I'm sure Biden is just waiting to cut the military budget

It literally is better. Both proposals are out and available for you (and me, which I already did) review. Is it impossible to discuss individual pieces of legislation without the #whatabout nonsense? It shouldn't be.

[Bene Futuis]

if you are happy with the Dems that is fine, I am sure you are correct and the Dems proposal is better than Trumps. There is a lot we could discuss but not really worthwhile.

What you're doing is known as the "tu quoque" logical fallacy. It effectively crushes any chance of discussion because it immediately moves the discussion away from the point at hand. It's just a deflection from the issue. It is obviously possible to have a strong negative reaction to the GOP's shitty coronavirus stimulus bill and not "be happy with the Dems". While some Dems might be on board with this GOP bill, many are not, as is evidenced in a variety of ways, from their actual quotes on the matter to the language of their competing bill. Since the Dems are not a monolith, we will have to see who votes for what and react accordingly. But the initial point remains (unaddressed, apparently).

[The Feral Slasher]

What you're doing is known as the "tu quoque" logical fallacy. It effectively crushes any chance of discussion because it immediately moves the discussion away from the point at hand. It's just a deflection from the issue. It is obviously possible to have a strong negative reaction to the GOP's shitty coronavirus stimulus bill and not "be happy with the Dems". While some Dems might be on board with this GOP bill, many are not, as is evidenced in a variety of ways, from their actual quotes on the matter to the language of their competing bill. Since the Dems are not a monolith, we will have to see who votes for what and react accordingly. But the initial point remains (unaddressed, apparently).

ok ! I'm glad you have a name for what i am doing and also acknowledge that I don't really need to be happy with the Dems.

[The Feral Slasher]

ok ! I'm glad you have a name for what i am doing and also acknowledge that I don't really need to be happy with the Dems.

If you think I am crushing any chance of discussion and you really want to discuss my disatisfaction with the Dems I'd be happy to have a more in depth conversation.

Edit- my impression was that you were really just complaining about Republicans and I was just complaining about Dems. But if you want to discuss in depth that would be alright i guess

[The Feral Slasher]

If you think I am crushing any chance of discussion and you really want to discuss my disatisfaction with the Dems I'd be happy to have a more in depth conversation.

Edit- my impression was that you were really just complaining about Republicans and I was just complaining about Dems. But if you want to discuss in depth that would be alright i guess

Ultimately I suppose what i am unhappy with is that Trump and the Republicans will basically get what they want, regardless of what certain dems say. So not sure who I should be unhappy with

[chancellor]

What you're doing is known as the "tu quoque" logical fallacy. It effectively crushes any chance of discussion because it immediately moves the discussion away from the point at hand.

I disagree. Feral has obviously agreed with your point of view that the GOP bill is poor and the Dem bill is better. His point is you're bound to get more of the former and less of the latter due to the ineffectiveness of the Democrats; I'd assume he's pointing to those who actually have the authority/capability to impact the bill coming forward. Therefore, it's not the "tu quoque" fallacy, since he's conceded your point is correct. The problem isn't that your point is wrong in his view, the problem lies with the utter ineffectiveness of those who are capable of implementing the bill or some level of concessions to get closer to the bill you like.

[The Feral Slasher]

I disagree. Feral has obviously agreed with your point of view that the GOP bill is poor and the Dem bill is better. His point is you're bound to get more of the former and less of the latter due to the ineffectiveness of the Democrats; I'd assume he's pointing to those who actually have the authority/capability to impact the bill coming forward. Therefore, it's not the "tu quoque" fallacy, since he's conceded your point is correct. The problem isn't that your point is wrong in his view, the problem lies with the utter ineffectiveness of those who are capable of implementing the bill or some level of concessions to get closer to the bill you like.

I agree






Lol....i think we were both voicing frustration

[Kevin Seitzer]

This is probably overly simplistic, but many of the issues where I disagree with the Democrats, such as the problems with militarism and nationalistic patriotism, I am also in disagreement with the vast majority of my fellow Americans.

I don't know if there is any issue on which I agree with the Republicans anymore. I still hold to some of the traditional conservative positions from 30+ years ago, but the Republicans have long left those behind.

[The Feral Slasher]

This GOP coronavirus stimulus package is the most offensive piece of crap imaginable. They actually earmarked over $686 million just for F-35 jets in new Pentagon money. A billion for maritime surveillance jets. Hundreds of millions more just for weapons. Because when faced with 40-50 million unemployment claims and a similar amount of upcoming evictions, the most important thing is to give the military as much money as possible while simultaneously slashing unemployment funds.

I agree with everything you wrote.

I just hope that when Biden becomes president that all liberals/progressives/Democrats continue with criticism where appropriate and pressure him to decrease military spending and involvement overseas . My experience tells me that is unlikely to happen, which is why I gave you the frustrated response, I suppose. My displeasure with how effectively the Dems are dealing with the current situation probably also played a part. Not to mention the $800 plumbing bill and lost cat I was dealing with yesterday. Anyway, lets hope the Dems can negotiate well

[Ken]

I agree with everything you wrote.

I just hope that when Biden becomes president that all liberals/progressives/Democrats continue with criticism where appropriate and pressure him to decrease military spending and involvement overseas . My experience tells me that is unlikely to happen, which is why I gave you the frustrated response, I suppose. My displeasure with how effectively the Dems are dealing with the current situation probably also played a part. Not to mention the $800 plumbing bill and lost cat I was dealing with yesterday. Anyway, lets hope the Dems can negotiate well

Did you at least get the cat out of the drain?

[DMT]

Did you at least get the cat out of the drain?

Big laugh!

[The Feral Slasher]

Did you at least get the cat out of the drain?

ha ha ! I think the plumber scared the cat and it found a closet or something...thought it got outside, but after an hour of looking inside and out he just showed up.

[Controller Jacobs]

Lol I'm glad I didn't take a drink before I read that

[Bene Futuis]

I agree with everything you wrote.

I just hope that when Biden becomes president that all liberals/progressives/Democrats continue with criticism where appropriate and pressure him to decrease military spending and involvement overseas . My experience tells me that is unlikely to happen, which is why I gave you the frustrated response, I suppose. My displeasure with how effectively the Dems are dealing with the current situation probably also played a part. Not to mention the $800 plumbing bill and lost cat I was dealing with yesterday. Anyway, lets hope the Dems can negotiate well

Whatever. I’m sure Bernies love for gun manufacturers is just fine.

[The Feral Slasher]

Whatever. I’m sure Bernies love for gun manufacturers is just fine.

You know its true, but whatever, lets move on to Bernie