*** VD 13 Commentary Thread ***

[The Feral Slasher]

bunny farms
broken fences
barren flatlands ....

yes, yes and yes.

Baseball fans ?

[heyelander]

Baseball fans ?

giants.

[The Feral Slasher]

giants.

Thought they might be....

[Kevin Seitzer]

Thought they might be....

That's instant bull, not constant hope for a World Series like they had in the early part of last decade.

[The Feral Slasher]

That's instant bull, not constant hope for a World Series like they had in the early part of last decade.

U made me consult the google

[Bene Futuis]

When I grew up in the Bay Area, the Giants were such sad sacks that they had hilarious commercials for them. There was one accompanied by a song that went "Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but winning is something you can always use. Go Giants. Giants hang in there." Lol.

[Bene Futuis]

They had a catcher named Johnny Rabb (iirc), whose arm was so unreliable that if he actually threw it to the guy covering second instead of the outfield at the end up warm ups, the crowd would erupt in applause.

[Bene Futuis]

The best thing about these awesome baseball owners demanding (more) pay cuts from their employees when times are tough: surely they'll offer pay raises when times are good, right? Right? Wait, they won't? :shockedface:

[Ken]

The best thing about these awesome baseball owners demanding (more) pay cuts from their employees when times are tough: surely they'll offer pay raises when times are good, right? Right? Wait, they won't? :shockedface:

There are pay raises almost every year through free agency. And the minimum salary has gone up almost every year. It went from $400K in 2009 to $414K in 2011, $480K in 2012, $507K in 2015, $545K in 2018, $555K in 2019, $563K in 2020.

And the average salary has gone up similarly. From $3MM in 2009 to over $4MM today.

If my pay went up at that rate for the same job function I'd be overjoyed, as most would. These guys are making a ton of money to play baseball. Why the angst?

[Bene Futuis]

There are pay raises almost every year through free agency. And the minimum salary has gone up almost every year. It went from $400K in 2009 to $414K in 2011, $480K in 2012, $507K in 2015, $545K in 2018, $555K in 2019, $563K in 2020.

And the average salary has gone up similarly. From $3MM in 2009 to over $4MM today.

If my pay went up at that rate for the same job function I'd be overjoyed, as most would. These guys are making a ton of money to play baseball. Why the angst?

Contractually mandated does not equal willingly offered. If you were one of the best (whatevers) in the entire world, you would deserve the high pay you received and would have strong grounds for making demands for such. Those figures, while slightly bettering the rate of inflation, were collectively bargained for. They aren't evidence of benevolence or a gift given by the owners. They clearly want their employees to share in their losses but not their gains.

I mean, these guys are making a ton of money to have other people who are the best in the world do their jobs. Why are they trying to fuck them over constantly? The guys who write the checks are the gazillionaires, not the ones who cash them.

Owners want the employees to share in the losses, not the gains. Honestly, it's just crazy to me that anyone would ever, ever side with the owners. And we're not even addressing the billionaire owners of organizations who are famously stingy, never sign free agents, etc. I have to chalk it up to anti-union propaganda, I guess. It makes no sense to me at all to side with the owners ever, particularly now. It's the crab in the bucket scenario.

[Bene Futuis]

And if you want treatment like that in your job function, I'd highly encourage you to unionize to even the scales in negotiation.

[cavebird]

Contractually mandated does not equal willingly offered. If you were one of the best (whatevers) in the entire world, you would deserve the high pay you received and would have strong grounds for making demands for such. Those figures, while slightly bettering the rate of inflation, were collectively bargained for. They aren't evidence of benevolence or a gift given by the owners. They clearly want their employees to share in their losses but not their gains.

I mean, these guys are making a ton of money to have other people who are the best in the world do their jobs. Why are they trying to fuck them over constantly? The guys who write the checks are the gazillionaires, not the ones who cash them.

Owners want the employees to share in the losses, not the gains. Honestly, it's just crazy to me that anyone would ever, ever side with the owners. And we're not even addressing the billionaire owners of organizations who are famously stingy, never sign free agents, etc. I have to chalk it up to anti-union propaganda, I guess. It makes no sense to me at all to side with the owners ever, particularly now. It's the crab in the bucket scenario.

I have no problem with either side when it is allowed under the CBA. The two sides are both rich and very sophisticated, and they conduct very painfully tedious negotiations. For example, in the last CBA, the players seemed more interested in creature comforts (rules about night games before long flights, etc.) than negotiating for the top dollar. So, when the luxury tax they allowed started depressing free agent salaries, well, they should have known that was coming (and went once the rich clubs reset their luxury tax penalties, more or less in a way that could be expected under the CBA. For the next CBA, the players seem to be looking for top dollar. The ones who really get screwed, as is usual in all types of negotiations like this, are the ones without a seat at the table---the minor leaguers and the draft picks. But in the negotiations themselves for the CBA, nobody really needs to root for either side; they are both big boys and can and do handle themselves.

[Bene Futuis]

I have no problem with either side when it is allowed under the CBA. The two sides are both rich and very sophisticated, and they conduct very painfully tedious negotiations. For example, in the last CBA, the players seemed more interested in creature comforts (rules about night games before long flights, etc.) than negotiating for the top dollar. So, when the luxury tax they allowed started depressing free agent salaries, well, they should have known that was coming (and went once the rich clubs reset their luxury tax penalties, more or less in a way that could be expected under the CBA. For the next CBA, the players seem to be looking for top dollar. The ones who really get screwed, as is usual in all types of negotiations like this, are the ones without a seat at the table---the minor leaguers and the draft picks. But in the negotiations themselves for the CBA, nobody really needs to root for either side; they are both big boys and can and do handle themselves.

I always root for the servants and not the masters. The reason (some of the) servants can handle themselves is because they have organized in order to balance the scales when bargaining. We see what the masters do and try to do to fuck the workers over constantly. I do agree, though, that the minor leaguers do get screwed. I wish the MLBPA represented them, too. They are clear evidence of the inaccuracy of the "spoiled rich player" concept - they get scraps from the billionaires' tables in the hopes that they will some day get to the top and obtain bargaining power.

[cavebird]

I always root for the servants and not the masters. The reason (some of the) servants can handle themselves is because they have organized in order to balance the scales when bargaining. We see what the masters do and try to do to fuck the workers over constantly. I do agree, though, that the minor leaguers do get screwed. I wish the MLBPA represented them, too. They are clear evidence of the inaccuracy of the "spoiled rich player" concept - they get scraps from the billionaires' tables in the hopes that they will some day get to the top and obtain bargaining power.

And let's face it, MLB players are more or less irreplaceable. There simply are no other people in the world who can be brought in and do their job as well as they do. They gives them much more bargaining power than most unions. But I will leave the rest of your comments untouched as I am walking a fine enough line on avoiding politics already.

[The Feral Slasher]

And let's face it, MLB players are more or less irreplaceable. There simply are no other people in the world who can be brought in and do their job as well as they do. They gives them much more bargaining power than most unions. But I will leave the rest of your comments untouched as I am walking a fine enough line on avoiding politics already.

Give in to the dark side....feel the power of your anger