*** VD 13 Commentary Thread ***

[Bene Futuis]

Are you playing for the points league title?

You know it! Wait, what are we talking about? I just thought Cole and Bieber were good picks at their respective spots.

[Ken]

Wait, what are we talking about?

You haven’t got anything, mullet head!

[Kevin Seitzer]

If I remember it correctly, be advocated a downward swing (negative launch angle?) and releasing the bat with your trailing hand. I don't think either of those are followed today, and more your failing than Feral's and mine.

That's how he's remembered, partly due to Walt Hriniak's influence after him, but that's not really what he taught. I thought the same thing you did, and then after all the stuff we learned about hitting in Houston, I went back and read Charley's book again, and realized we were basically just rediscovering Charley Lau's hitting theories all over again. Some of his main points are about getting the bat slotted and making a weight shift backward and then forward toward the pitcher. He doesn't emphasize rotation as much as Ted Williams does, and some people have taken from this that Lau taught a linear movement and Williams taught a rotational movement, but it's obvious if you look at any professional baseball swing that both linear and rotational elements are involved.

Here's a link where someone excerpted Lau's 10 "Absolutes of Hitting":

https://pytsports.net/product/the-absolutes-of-good-hitting

I wouldn't put the same emphasis on some of those as Charley did, but several of those are definitely taught in good hitting programs today.

[heyelander]

That's how he's remembered, partly due to Walt Hriniak's influence after him, but that's not really what he taught. I thought the same thing you did, and then after all the stuff we learned about hitting in Houston, I went back and read Charley's book again, and realized we were basically just rediscovering Charley Lau's hitting theories all over again. Some of his main points are about getting the bat slotted and making a weight shift backward and then forward toward the pitcher. He doesn't emphasize rotation as much as Ted Williams does, and some people have taken from this that Lau taught a linear movement and Williams taught a rotational movement, but it's obvious if you look at any professional baseball swing that both linear and rotational elements are involved.

Here's a link where someone excerpted Lau's 10 "Absolutes of Hitting":

https://pytsports.net/product/the-absolutes-of-good-hitting

I wouldn't put the same emphasis on some of those as Charley did, but several of those are definitely taught in good hitting programs today.

for sure. I remembered most of those. I think the two I mentioned stood out because they are the biggest differences from today's game

On the 9th point of using the whole field... how hard is it to learn to bunt? (honest question, not being snarky). I know bunting is verboten now, and I understand how it is not (usually) productive to sacrifice to move runners (I imagine there is some utility in doing it late in a close game) but with the increase in shifts I have to imagine bunting for hits to vacant spots on the field should be a good move. 1/3 for the current hit but more so because it may force teams to stop shifting against you and then there's more hits to come from your normal swing. Are you really giving up so much by not taking the shot with your full swing vs a higher percentage of singling? (maybe, I don't know). I have to imagine if bunting (with enough practice) is not equally difficult as hitting that it would pay off over a season.

[The Feral Slasher]

If I remember it correctly, be advocated a downward swing (negative launch angle?) and releasing the bat with your trailing hand. I don't think either of those are followed today, and more your failing than Feral's and mine.

Ouch, roasted !

[Kevin Seitzer]

for sure. I remembered most of those. I think the two I mentioned stood out because they are the biggest differences from today's game

On the 9th point of using the whole field... how hard is it to learn to bunt? (honest question, not being snarky). I know bunting is verboten now, and I understand how it is not (usually) productive to sacrifice to move runners (I imagine there is some utility in doing it late in a close game) but with the increase in shifts I have to imagine bunting for hits to vacant spots on the field should be a good move. 1/3 for the current hit but more so because it may force teams to stop shifting against you and then there's more hits to come from your normal swing. Are you really giving up so much by not taking the shot with your full swing vs a higher percentage of singling? (maybe, I don't know). I have to imagine if bunting (with enough practice) is not equally difficult as hitting that it would pay off over a season.

It's really hard to learn to bunt well enough that the defense actually has to respect it. Squaring around a handful of times during the season and fouling off a few bunts and maybe getting one or two down fair isn't going to make the defense change anything. And if they do change, it will probably just to pull the third baseman over and not to completely go out of the shift. I have been part of teams for a number of seasons now where this has been advocated for the LH hitters, and I have yet to see it make a difference for anyone that wouldn't have been better spent working on their regular swing instead. I used to be a big proponent of LH bunting for the reason you give, but I've come around to being pretty ambivalent about it.

[The Feral Slasher]

It's really hard to learn to bunt well enough that the defense actually has to respect it. Squaring around a handful of times during the season and fouling off a few bunts and maybe getting one or two down fair isn't going to make the defense change anything. And if they do change, it will probably just to pull the third baseman over and not to completely go out of the shift. I have been part of teams for a number of seasons now where this has been advocated for the LH hitters, and I have yet to see it make a difference for anyone that wouldn't have been better spent working on their regular swing instead. I used to be a big proponent of LH bunting for the reason you give, but I've come around to being pretty ambivalent about it.

The should read "The Art of Bunting" by F.S. Slashoski. It is a classic and addresses all the issues you discuss. Also it is illustrated.

[heyelander]

It's really hard to learn to bunt well enough that the defense actually has to respect it. Squaring around a handful of times during the season and fouling off a few bunts and maybe getting one or two down fair isn't going to make the defense change anything. And if they do change, it will probably just to pull the third baseman over and not to completely go out of the shift. I have been part of teams for a number of seasons now where this has been advocated for the LH hitters, and I have yet to see it make a difference for anyone that wouldn't have been better spent working on their regular swing instead. I used to be a big proponent of LH bunting for the reason you give, but I've come around to being pretty ambivalent about it.

Good stuff! Thank you

[The Feral Slasher]

It's really hard to learn to bunt well enough that the defense actually has to respect it. Squaring around a handful of times during the season and fouling off a few bunts and maybe getting one or two down fair isn't going to make the defense change anything. And if they do change, it will probably just to pull the third baseman over and not to completely go out of the shift. I have been part of teams for a number of seasons now where this has been advocated for the LH hitters, and I have yet to see it make a difference for anyone that wouldn't have been better spent working on their regular swing instead. I used to be a big proponent of LH bunting for the reason you give, but I've come around to being pretty ambivalent about it.

I certainly believe you, but it is seems hard to understand. How can it not be easy for a guy who can hit off amazing pitchers to lay down a bunt ? I guess that is why I have to read Charley Lau 30 times and I still can't hit.

[The Feral Slasher]

The should read "The Art of Bunting" by F.S. Slashoski. It is a classic and addresses all the issues you discuss. Also it is illustrated.

ok, so I read it, but I still can't bunt

[The Feral Slasher]

The should read "The Art of Bunting" by F.S. Slashoski. It is a classic and addresses all the issues you discuss. Also it is illustrated.

*they

[Kevin Seitzer]

I certainly believe you, but it is seems hard to understand. How can it not be easy for a guy who can hit off amazing pitchers to lay down a bunt ? I guess that is why I have to read Charley Lau 30 times and I still can't hit.

It's fairly easy to lay down a bunt off a batting practice fastball, but a lot harder to put it down fair (and not straight back to the pitcher) when the pitcher is trying to get you out.

I'm guessing every major league player could do it well enough if they dedicated their waking lives to it, but it takes a lot more work than just going out a few afternoons and working on it.

I do think technique matters, and most major league players have poor bunting technique. I sat through a bunting class by Paul Runge and now I see all the flaws with everyone's technique. You're supposed to adjust to the height of the pitch by bending your knees rather than angling the bat. When you angle the bat, that's when you are more likely to bunt foul. But it's a completely alien movement to bend your knees with the pitch like that, which is why it takes a bunch of practice at realistic pitching speeds (and ideally against breaking balls, too).

[Kevin Seitzer]

ok, so I read it, but I still can't bunt

Did you return it to the library when you were done, for the next generation to read?

[Kevin Seitzer]

Did you return it to the library when you were done, for the next generation to read?

No wonder kids these days are illiterate. Feral's been withholding all their books.

[The Feral Slasher]

No wonder kids these days are illiterate. Feral's been withholding all their books.

they were on there phones. Would not have read them anyway.