*** VD 13 Commentary Thread ***

[Ken]

This is a reasonable group in this forum, I think. How many of you believe the buzzer thing is real?

Well we know for sure that they had a method of gathering the information.
And we know that they were willing to use it.
There are "whispers" of this buzzer thing.

There was the odd "cleats" buzzer note that popped up on reddit: https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/...h1gx9h61qapv6k

Then there's the Beltre's "neice". And Altuve not wanting his shirt pulled off. And Reddick's patch.

And Bauer saying that he's heard it other places.

I guess one way to ask the question is to turn it on its head and ask why wouldn't it be true. Under what scenario and under what motivation would all those come out and be so specifically similar. I guess they could be all feeding off each other, that's a possibility.

I'm inclined to guess that it's true. If they were willing to do the trashcan plan, I don't know why they wouldn't do the buzzer plan. But I have no proof of it personally. I'd say 60/40 on the side of it being real.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Well we know for sure that they had a method of gathering the information.

In 2017-18, yes, because that method of gathering the information (to quote from the commissioner, a "live game feed from the center field camera") was legal. How they used it was obviously not legal, but having the feed and installing a "monitor displaying the center field camera feed immediately outside of the Astros' dugout" was legal. In the 2018-19 offseason, the MLB rules were changed to make this camera setup illegal. MLB conducted physical audits of all stadium cameras that offseason and also multiple times during the season at each MLB stadium. They also employed monitoring personnel for every game and extra monitoring personnel during the playoffs. I don't know whether or not ways were found around that, but it wouldn't have been as simple as continuing to gather information on signs the way it had been done in 2017-18.

[Bene Futuis]

Revo, scraping the bottom of the barrel with Ken and I!

[Bene Futuis]

Mostly just me.

[revo]

Revo, scraping the bottom of the barrel with Ken and I!

I have very little standards!

Will Brinson is our defending champ. He's actually a really good guy. It's a good league. When I first joined it (found it here), I didn't know anyone and I thought it was run poorly, so I took over in Yr 2 and started to infuse some new blood. The RJ guys have been great additions and I'm sure you and Ken (if he joins) will be as well.

[Ken]

In 2017-18, yes, because that method of gathering the information (to quote from the commissioner, a "live game feed from the center field camera") was legal. How they used it was obviously not legal, but having the feed and installing a "monitor displaying the center field camera feed immediately outside of the Astros' dugout" was legal. In the 2018-19 offseason, the MLB rules were changed to make this camera setup illegal. MLB conducted physical audits of all stadium cameras that offseason and also multiple times during the season at each MLB stadium. They also employed monitoring personnel for every game and extra monitoring personnel during the playoffs. I don't know whether or not ways were found around that, but it wouldn't have been as simple as continuing to gather information on signs the way it had been done in 2017-18.

Good points. And some information I was not aware of. Obviously you are our most informed individual. So I'm not arguing here as much as presenting ideas.

From an article in 2018:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/mlb-cheaters-beware-baseball-finally-addressing-sign-stealing-problem

Baseball needs to decide if it wants to both retroactively investigate what was allowed to happen in recent years — as technology and the search for competitive advantages helped bring the the game to this point -- or if it wants to only look forward.

Opening Pandora’s Box is an appropriate cliche.


What’s to stop a player from putting a wearable device in his wrist guard, or in his sliding shorts or back pocket? When he steps to the plate, someone else can alert him with a small vibration what’s coming. What’s preventing a video feed from a camera from going three buildings away to a secret office, and then someone alerting that wearable device? A security agent in a designated video room would not be the wiser.

[The Feral Slasher]

Revo, scraping the bottom of the barrel with Ken and I!

Wait what ? He told me and Heye earlier that the spots were taken

[Kevin Seitzer]

Good points. And some information I was not aware of. Obviously you are our most informed individual. So I'm not arguing here as much as presenting ideas.

From an article in 2018:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/mlb-cheaters-beware-baseball-finally-addressing-sign-stealing-problem

Baseball needs to decide if it wants to both retroactively investigate what was allowed to happen in recent years — as technology and the search for competitive advantages helped bring the the game to this point -- or if it wants to only look forward.

Opening Pandora’s Box is an appropriate cliche.


What’s to stop a player from putting a wearable device in his wrist guard, or in his sliding shorts or back pocket? When he steps to the plate, someone else can alert him with a small vibration what’s coming. What’s preventing a video feed from a camera from going three buildings away to a secret office, and then someone alerting that wearable device? A security agent in a designated video room would not be the wiser.

I have obviously have to be careful what I say here since this is a public forum. I trust you VD regulars here but there are others on this forum that I don't trust as much.

This newest allegation is coming from a time frame where I have less personal knowledge of what might have happened. So I'm in some ways as curious as everyone else what the truth really is. But I also have some better idea of the constraints on the problem. Can you trigger a wearable device from a considerable distance away in a noisy RF environment? Are those kinds of wearable devices available for purchase?

[The Feral Slasher]

I have obviously have to be careful what I say here since this is a public forum. I trust you VD regulars here but there are others on this forum that I don't trust as much.

This newest allegation is coming from a time frame where I have less personal knowledge of what might have happened. So I'm in some ways as curious as everyone else what the truth really is. But I also have some better idea of the constraints on the problem. Can you trigger a wearable device from a considerable distance away in a noisy RF environment? Are those kinds of wearable devices available for purchase?

I had no idea that right right field was noisier than anywhere else in the stadium, besides I'd not heard that they were triggering these buzzers from there. I'm really confused right now.

[The Feral Slasher]

Revo, scraping the bottom of the barrel with Ken and I!

Not sure how good those teams will be, but I actually enjoy taking over a non competitive team and building it up.

[Ken]

Can you trigger a wearable device from a considerable distance away in a noisy RF environment?

RF noise can be countered by using bands that are atypical.

So a large stadium is going to be filled with devices trying to use 850/900/1,800/1,900 MHz. But other bands? May not be noisy.

Are those kinds of wearable devices available for purchase?

You got me there, I do not know.

[The Feral Slasher]

This is the first card corner I have read on fangraphs. It was a nice read.

https://tht.fangraphs.com/card-corner-1975-topps-set-reflected-the-era/

[heyelander]

Wait what ? He told me and Heye earlier that the spots were taken

grrr.....

[heyelander]

Not sure how good those teams will be, but I actually enjoy taking over a non competitive team and building it up.

I'm much better with taking over competitive teams and tearing them down.

[The Feral Slasher]

I'm much better with taking over competitive teams and tearing them down.

I didnt say i was any good at it. Low expectations