*** VD 12 Commentary Thread ***

[Bene Futuis]

Out of curiosity, who are the players who have had more than one BY chosen? I know Honus Wagner is one. Is Ted Williams another? Does anyone ever take 1941 over 1949?

There are quite a few. Yasztremski is one of them --- 1967 or 1970. I think Ed Delahanty is another. There's another prominent guy, but he hasn't been picked yet. Rickey Henderson is another and one of the few with three or more BYs to choose from. One of my favorite deadball hitters, along with Delahanty, has two BYs that are ranked right next to each other in my rankings. I bet Willie Mays gets some 1962 and some 1955 picks.


Oh, that's probably a decent reminder for new folks: we don't discuss players who have yet to be picked, if at all possible.

Edit: Verlander's 2018 looks, at a glance, to be competitive with his 2011. 8 less wins but a bunch more Ks and better WHIP.

[johnnya24]

I'm doing that to some extent, but the fallacy of my approach is that the valuations need to take into account relative value (both to position and to "Letter") before they are summed up. If you sum first and then compare you are vulnerable to missing out on categories in a relative sense, and in a multiplication scoring league that problem is magnified.

There are a few ways to do this. I've found over the years that by compiling all the Hitter and pitcher data onto 2 Excel sheets was the most efficient way:

1. Compile 2 excel sheets with all the Best Year stats: hitters and pitcher obviously.
2. Retain only the relevant data (i.e ID, Name, year AB, HR, RBI, RUN, SB, AVG, position etc). No Formulas. "Rasterize" any formulas you have to make ... err ... I copy the data (resulting from the formula) onto neighbouring blank areas, paste values only (not formulas), then copy pasta back over to the original cells. Leaving only the text, no more formulas.
3. Use vlookup to bring across the career stats for each BY line. Removing formulas afterwards.
4. So you have in a single row with BY and CAR stats combined.
5. Then add your various ranking columns after.
6. Highlight all the selected cells and click "filter" on the data tab.
7. This allows you to sort each column is many ways by clicking the drop down arrow on the top cell (see the scoring spreadsheet's "hit_seas" sheet.)

As for the rankings:

1. I split Ratio and Counting Stats categories into separate columns. I'm sure an excel savant could do that in one line. So for instance, for BY hitting I have 1 column calculating the BY AVG, and another calculating the Counting stats. Then a 3rd column collating them. Lather rinse repeat for the CAR stats on the next 3 columns, then in Column 7 you add the BY and CAR totals ... voila.

2. Do the same for pitching, but with 4 columns for each to account for the extra ratio category.

3. Then add further columns with +/- points for ERA, Letter, Decade, Franchise.

4. Add in what is relevant for each draft. Hey presto.

The hard part is calculating the formulas. Mine is a constant work in progress. I tend to get a balance I like, then make subjective value judgments based on how the draft evolves. So I use the values as more of a guide than anything else.

Hope that helps.

J

[TS Garp]

Somebody make me feel bad about how early that last pick of mine was.

Brutal. Absolutely brutal.

Happy?

[Bene Futuis]

Somebody make me feel bad about how early that last pick of mine was.

One of the most difficult things for me in these drafts is valuing pitching, particularly the guys with stellar ratios but few IP when compared to the big IP behemoths. Kimbrel has amazing stats at a scarce letter as well as a killer BY. All he lacks are the IP, which means that he doesn't move the needle too much for your team's overall ratios. Still, he's unquestionably elite. My crappy rankings which cannot adequately account for volume have him as the 6th best pitcher of all time --- but only 533 IP should knock him down quite a bit from there.

[johnnya24]

Somebody make me feel bad about how early that last pick of mine was.

Addie Joss? Good pick, and compliments your other picks nicely. Old Hoss and Koufax are great, but they both have their drawbacks. Joss helps address where they are weakest (less strong), while strengthening areas you already solid in. Importantly, no wasted value anywhere.

EDIT:

Ah Kimbrel ... nah, solid pick. I was debating both Nen and Kimbrel.

[revo]

Kimbrel was on my shortlist for my next two picks. He's one of the few "post-modern" players who have moved up tremendously in the last few years.

[johnnya24]

Kimbrel 2012

[TABLE="width: 874"]
[TR]
[TD]kimbrcr01_2012[/TD]
[TD]kimbrcr01[/TD]
[TD]Kimbrel[/TD]
[TD]Craig[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]62.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]116[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]63[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]42[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.01[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.654[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD]2010
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[frae]

Out of curiosity, who are the players who have had more than one BY chosen? I know Honus Wagner is one. Is Ted Williams another? Does anyone ever take 1941 over 1949?

I know Nen has gone 98 and 2000. I am not sure if that is only a decade thing or not. His 98 Whip is closer to 1.00 whereas his 2000 Whip is closer to 0.85. Strikeouts and wins go to 98 110 - 92 and 7-4. Saves go to 2000 41-40. So maybe there is some good debte there. For me I wanted the K's with Cy's BY K's not that great.

[johnnya24]

I know Nen has gone 98 and 2000. I am not sure if that is only a decade thing or not. His 98 Whip is closer to 1.00 whereas his 2000 Whip is closer to 0.85. Strikeouts and wins go to 98 110 - 92 and 7-4. Saves go to 2000 41-40. So maybe there is some good debte there. For me I wanted the K's with Cy's BY K's not that great.

The low WHIP year is worth marginally more IMO. Depends on what you need. They are both very close.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Out of curiosity, who are the players who have had more than one BY chosen? I know Honus Wagner is one. Is Ted Williams another? Does anyone ever take 1941 over 1949?

The spreadsheet I posted the link to a few posts back has the answer to that question.

[Bene Futuis]

"Welcome to our newest member, Mr. Squidward"

[Ken]

OK, so why are relievers valued so much more highly in VD than regular fantasy? I'm sure I already missed the boat but I feel like it's worth asking for next time.

[DMT]

OK, so why are relievers valued so much more highly in VD than regular fantasy? I'm sure I already missed the boat but I feel like it's worth asking for next time.

I would imagine because save totals are already fixed whereas in fantasy there is so much risk (and turnover) involved at the closer position.

[johnnya24]

The spreadsheet I posted the link to a few posts back has the answer to that question.

That reminds me, we didn't allow newer players in VD1 ... and I may have been the guilty party in picking Rickey Henderson 2nd in VD2. I recall spending a long time regretting that one

It wasn't until ~VD5 when Rickey's value evened out.

[johnnya24]

I would imagine because save totals are already fixed whereas in fantasy there is so much risk involved at the closer position.

Plus you can't fill out your lineup with only SP's or you'll probably wreck your ratios. Hard to keep them averages competitive with 35K IP.