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You can't bluff the unbluffable

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  • #1

    You can't bluff the unbluffable

    The title of this thread is what I tell my wife or inner circle about really bad poker players. The lesson is obvious, yes?

    While, today I learned about the really bad roto player.

    My league mate...and we play in a league for some pretty decent cash...made the following trade:

    He acquired $5 marcus stroman (extension decision in spring of 2016) and an expiring j.dyson and gave m.napoli ($24, not keeper material) and an expiring j.gomes.


    On the table from me was $5 g.cecchini (minor league contract) OR $4 jonathan schoop (extension decision in 2016) to be paired with with $1 Joakim Soria (can be extended next spring or just enjoy the salary value), he would have sent me Napoli and an expiring b.lawrie.

    This owner has no other tradeable commodities as he already dumped...and he does not have a closer in place for next season.

    Forget the cheap full time schoop who is included in the offer, am I delusional or is just $1 Soria not miles better than marcus stroman?
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  • #2
    Is this a 12 team Al-only league?

    I don't know much about Stroman, so I would much rather have Soria than Stroman at those prices. Maybe he thinks he can deal Lawrie in another trade to upgrade his team? Lawrie isn't great, but in an only league i would think he has pretty good value.
    "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
      Is this a 12 team Al-only league?

      I don't know much about Stroman, so I would much rather have Soria than Stroman at those prices. Maybe he thinks he can deal Lawrie in another trade to upgrade his team? Lawrie isn't great, but in an only league i would think he has pretty good value.
      Yes, a 12 team only. In my league, he is getting nothing of consequence for an expiring brett lawrie (and I say this coming from a league based in Toronto).

      His words prior to making the choice of marcus stroman "I am deciding between your offer and an offer for 'a very good player'.

      When I saw who that 'very good player' was, I could not believe my eyes.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by wannabegriffey View Post
        Yes, a 12 team only. In my league, he is getting nothing of consequence for an expiring brett lawrie (and I say this coming from a league based in Toronto).

        His words prior to making the choice of marcus stroman "I am deciding between your offer and an offer for 'a very good player'.

        When I saw who that 'very good player' was, I could not believe my eyes.
        There are those owners in every league...They just seem to operate on a different plane than the rest of us.

        Owner in my league 14 team mixed, traded Casey Janssen ($24) and Hamels ($18) for CJ Wilson ($22). So not only did he give up the superior pitcher WHO WAS CHEAPER, but he threw in a solid closer to boot!! Who does that???
        "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
          There are those owners in every league...They just seem to operate on a different plane than the rest of us.
          Yep. Once we had a guy (a national writer who some of you have probably read) announce he was dumping Bobby Abreu at the height of his studliness and a bunch of us made offers. The offer he accepted? A $4 Adam Eaton (the pitcher), straight up. It was easily the worst offer that I was aware of.

          We have a guy who didn't understand the difference between "cheapness" and "value," and made infuriating dump trades for years, though he has been better recently.

          We have another one who never makes trades and almost never makes FAAB pickups -- and punts saves every year despite it never working.
          Originally posted by Kevin Seitzer
          We pinch ran for Altuve specifically to screw over Mith's fantasy team.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Erik View Post
            Yep. Once we had a guy (a national writer who some of you have probably read) announce he was dumping Bobby Abreu at the height of his studliness and a bunch of us made offers. The offer he accepted? A $4 Adam Eaton (the pitcher), straight up. It was easily the worst offer that I was aware of.

            We have a guy who didn't understand the difference between "cheapness" and "value," and made infuriating dump trades for years, though he has been better recently.

            We have another one who never makes trades and almost never makes FAAB pickups -- and punts saves every year despite it never working.

            Got one of those in my league too! But after 6 years of doing it he finally drafted closers this year and is in the top 5 in saves right now.
            "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

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            • #7
              Last year, he finally executed it as perfectly as you can -- first in wins, first in Ks, last in saves -- and still finished fifth. That should have been a signal to him, but no.
              Originally posted by Kevin Seitzer
              We pinch ran for Altuve specifically to screw over Mith's fantasy team.

              Comment

              • #8
                in my main league there are several GMs, including myself, that punt saves when warranted by auction prices and dynamics. it can work - i finished in the money two years ago doing it. so an attitude that it can never work is as unwarranted as an attitude that you should always do it.
                "Instead of all of this energy and effort directed at the war to end drugs, how about a little attention to drugs which will end war?" Albert Hofmann

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Erik View Post
                  Last year, he finally executed it as perfectly as you can -- first in wins, first in Ks, last in saves -- and still finished fifth. That should have been a signal to him, but no.
                  His hitting must have let him down i guess? I believe i did punt saves and won my league in 1997, but that was when stats were done by hand and my league did not save the statistics from those years. I know i won the league, and i know i punted saves a year or two, just not 100% sure i punted saves that year.
                  "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wannabegriffey View Post
                    Forget the cheap full time schoop who is included in the offer, am I delusional or is just $1 Soria not miles better than marcus stroman?
                    If Stroman can stick in the rotation he could be worth it over a closer. Its a gamble though...
                    "The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." -NY Times

                    "For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts" - Joe Biden

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                    • #11
                      In a keeper league I entered this year I have a $2 Chris Sale, and am sitting middle of the pack with pretty good pitching and pretty horrid hitting. In other words, I'm writing off this year. I had the guy in 2nd inquire about what I'd want for Chris Sale. His team is loaded with keepers, and he wants one of my best keepers?? He turned down my initial offer, which would have brought back keepable players C Gomez and E Encarnacion (I would have given him my two best offensive players)...and he said my value was WAY out of whack on Sale. It was an opening offer, but one to let him know I'm not a moron.
                      Considering his only baseball post in the past year was bringing up a 3 year old thread to taunt Hornsby and he's never contributed a dime to our hatpass, perhaps?

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Is Stroman a gamble? Sure, all pitching prospects are, but he's a Top 50 rated prospect for 2014, so him for an expiring Napoli seems like a good deal.

                        Soria's been awesome, but let's remember he missed nearly 2 full seasons ('12 & '13) after TJ surgery; he wasn't the Rangers' first choice to be closer in '14; and the closer position has never been more unstable. Can you guarantee Soria will be the Rangers' closer next year?

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pogues View Post
                          In a keeper league I entered this year I have a $2 Chris Sale, and am sitting middle of the pack with pretty good pitching and pretty horrid hitting. In other words, I'm writing off this year. I had the guy in 2nd inquire about what I'd want for Chris Sale. His team is loaded with keepers, and he wants one of my best keepers?? He turned down my initial offer, which would have brought back keepable players C Gomez and E Encarnacion (I would have given him my two best offensive players)...and he said my value was WAY out of whack on Sale. It was an opening offer, but one to let him know I'm not a moron.
                          Without knowing prices and the two offensive players you were including, Gomez and EE are WAY WAY too much for Sale.
                          "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by revo View Post
                            Is Stroman a gamble? Sure, all pitching prospects are, but he's a Top 50 rated prospect for 2014, so him for an expiring Napoli seems like a good deal.

                            Soria's been awesome, but let's remember he missed nearly 2 full seasons ('12 & '13) after TJ surgery; he wasn't the Rangers' first choice to be closer in '14; and the closer position has never been more unstable. Can you guarantee Soria will be the Rangers' closer next year?
                            Can you guarantee that stroman is even going to be in the majors next season because assuming no injury...and we are discussing two pitchers...I ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE soria is in the majors.

                            Prior to soria's tj surgery, he was a top 5 mlb closer 3 straight years. Injury came, 1.5 seasons out of the mix, came back last season and was a respectable relief pitcher (not a closer). This season soria is back at the top of his game, one of the best 5 closers in mlb (1.6 era...0.064 whip (those are zero's before and after the decimal point) ...15 saves).

                            The window of winning in roto is very short. $1 closers are the choice, NOT rookie pitchers with era's over 5 and whips approaching 1.6.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wannabegriffey View Post
                              Can you guarantee that stroman is even going to be in the majors next season because assuming no injury...and we are discussing two pitchers...I ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE soria is in the majors.

                              Prior to soria's tj surgery, he was a top 5 mlb closer 3 straight years. Injury came, 1.5 seasons out of the mix, came back last season and was a respectable relief pitcher (not a closer). This season soria is back at the top of his game, one of the best 5 closers in mlb (1.6 era...0.064 whip (those are zero's before and after the decimal point) ...15 saves).

                              The window of winning in roto is very short. $1 closers are the choice, NOT rookie pitchers with era's over 5 and whips approaching 1.6.
                              1.8 ERA and .64 whip. .064 whip seems pretty much impossible.

                              It sounds like you're upset that you couldnt convince an owner to buy into your thinking. Stroman is a good pitcher to invest in.
                              "The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." -NY Times

                              "For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts" - Joe Biden

                              Comment

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