Looks like the Biogenesis suspensions are coming

[Long John]

People rarely buy illegal substances from reputable people. Immunity happens all the time in the legal system. I don't love the tactics but I understand theres rarely ever any other way.

I want users to be punished. Its the only way to validate those who chose to play this game the right way.

I want users to be punished too. The problem is how to separate the innocent from those that are smart enough not to get caught.

You're going to tell me Jason Giambi is innocent because he's never been caught? (horse whinnies) Ok.

[Hammer]

I want users to be punished too. The problem is how to separate the innocent from those that are smart enough not to get caught.

You're going to tell me Jason Giambi is innocent because he's never been caught? (horse whinnies) Ok.

Giambi was guilty but MLB must not have had evidence strong enough for them to go after him. In the case of Bosch's clients, they do. I really don't understand what you want Selig to do here.

[onejayhawk]

Giambi was guilty but MLB must not have had evidence strong enough for them to go after him. In the case of Bosch's clients, they do. I really don't understand what you want Selig to do here.

That is evidently debatable. There is an old saw in debating. Pound on the facts, if you have them. Pound on the logic, if you have that. If neither, pound on the podium.

J

[revo]

Really? C'mon. I know you guys are smarter than that.

Or was there a different commissioner of MLB in 1996-2000 that allowed players like McGwire, Sosa and Bonds to be not only cheered, but revered for their incredible feats of artificially-enhanced strength. What efforts did he make in the mid-90s to attack PED/steroid use in the game?

None. And he had no interest in doing so because the last thing anyone wanted at that point was to bring negative attention to the game after or during one of the worst strikes in professional sports history.

We've gotten to this point because the owners (as a whole) and Selig (as an individual) lacked the vision to see the long-term repercussions of their actions and inactions.

This is total revisionist history and pretty inaccurate, LJ.

It's easy to use hindsight today, 15-17 years later, and say, "Why didn't Selig do anything about PEDs back then when it was so blatantly obvious?" Because not only was it not obvious, it wasn't even perceived to be a major issue until around 2002! As late as 2000(!!), "juiced baseballs" was the widely-held theory about why HRs were increasing, so much so that MLB actually commissioned a study to test the '00 balls versus the '99 balls! They actually cut open the balls because everybody thought that was increasing HRs! It seems so naive today, but it's 100% true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juiced_ball_theory

During the great HR chase of '98, Mark McGwire openly displayed bottles of Andro in his locker and very few journalists even questioned it:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/1998/08/22/mcgwire_supplement/

Heck, Sports Illustrated even naively wrote in the article:
"No one suggests that McGwire wouldn't be closing in on Roger Maris' home run record without the over-the-counter drug. After all, he hit 49 homers without it as a rookie in 1987, and more than 50 each of the past two seasons." Bwahahaha.

Many professionals back then even thought baseball and steroids didn't make sense because roids would make you too big to swing a bat and make you prone to injuries. And why would a pitcher ever take steroids?? Bwahahahaha.

From the same SI article, August 1998:
"San Diego Padre conditioning coordinator Sam Gannelli said none of the Padres take Androstenedione, and he didn't believe steroids were widely used in baseball.

"Compared to every other sport, there's no time to heal in baseball," he said. "In football, you have six days off after every game. In basketball, it's three or four days. These guys are going every day for six months. Steroids can really get you broken down. They can do a lot of harm in the long run."

While claims could be made that Selig and the owners covered it up, in reality, it was the Player's Union that resisted adding any form of drug testing to the CBA until the public outcry became too much, and that only happened after the Sports Illustrated expose in 2002 where Ken Caminiti claimed he won the '96 NL MVP while juicing and estimated more than half of baseball was juicing, and openly. It was this story that revealed that even pitchers and non-power hitters were using PEDs as well:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1025902/1/index.htm

So to say the drug issue was Selig's fault is rubbish, and to think he could've stopped it as early as the mid-1990s is rubbish as well.

[Hammer]

sounds like MLB has more than Bosch.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...anthony-bosch/

[amcg]

Selig: EVERYONE POINT AT THE BAD BAD MEN DOING BAD BAD THINGS.... BOOOOO!!!!

Meanwhile continue extracting tax dollars in stadium extortion rackets and pretend that Selig wasn't part of turning a blind eye to PEDs in baseball provided that there were bums on seats.

This is utter BS.

[revo]

Selig: EVERYONE POINT AT THE BAD BAD MEN DOING BAD BAD THINGS.... BOOOOO!!!!

Meanwhile continue extracting tax dollars in stadium extortion rackets and pretend that Selig wasn't part of turning a blind eye to PEDs in baseball provided that there were bums on seats.

This is utter BS.

Do you agree that there could not have been drug testing in baseball without the Player's Union approval and inclusion in the CBA?

[amcg]

Do you agree that there could not have been drug testing in baseball without the Player's Union approval and inclusion in the CBA?

Of course.

[Long John]

This is total revisionist history and pretty inaccurate, LJ.

It's easy to use hindsight today, 15-17 years later, and say, "Why didn't Selig do anything about PEDs back then when it was so blatantly obvious?" Because not only was it not obvious, it wasn't even perceived to be a major issue until around 2002! As late as 2000(!!), "juiced baseballs" was the widely-held theory about why HRs were increasing, so much so that MLB actually commissioned a study to test the '00 balls versus the '99 balls! They actually cut open the balls because everybody thought that was increasing HRs! It seems so naive today, but it's 100% true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juiced_ball_theory

During the great HR chase of '98, Mark McGwire openly displayed bottles of Andro in his locker and very few journalists even questioned it:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/1998/08/22/mcgwire_supplement/

Heck, Sports Illustrated even naively wrote in the article:
"No one suggests that McGwire wouldn't be closing in on Roger Maris' home run record without the over-the-counter drug. After all, he hit 49 homers without it as a rookie in 1987, and more than 50 each of the past two seasons." Bwahahaha.

Many professionals back then even thought baseball and steroids didn't make sense because roids would make you too big to swing a bat and make you prone to injuries. And why would a pitcher ever take steroids?? Bwahahahaha.

From the same SI article, August 1998:
"San Diego Padre conditioning coordinator Sam Gannelli said none of the Padres take Androstenedione, and he didn't believe steroids were widely used in baseball.

"Compared to every other sport, there's no time to heal in baseball," he said. "In football, you have six days off after every game. In basketball, it's three or four days. These guys are going every day for six months. Steroids can really get you broken down. They can do a lot of harm in the long run."

While claims could be made that Selig and the owners covered it up, in reality, it was the Player's Union that resisted adding any form of drug testing to the CBA until the public outcry became too much, and that only happened after the Sports Illustrated expose in 2002 where Ken Caminiti claimed he won the '96 NL MVP while juicing and estimated more than half of baseball was juicing, and openly. It was this story that revealed that even pitchers and non-power hitters were using PEDs as well:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1025902/1/index.htm

So to say the drug issue was Selig's fault is rubbish, and to think he could've stopped it as early as the mid-1990s is rubbish as well.

I'm not saying the drug issue is Selig's fault. I'm saying the current status of drugs being a black mark on the sport is his fault. Drugs were in baseball in the 80s and probably as early as the 70s. I'm saying he picked a much more convenient time to step on the soap box. True, none of this could have happened without the players union agreeing, but it was never even brought up as a discussion topic until the 2001 season. It wasn't a big deal in the late 90s because no one told the media it should be.

My point is that Selig operates in the best interest of the game when it suits the owners wallets. That's not what the Commissioner's Office was created for and it's a clear abuse of his power. Being an owner, he should have never been allowed to even have interim near his name.

Now where's that damn All Drug Olympics clip from SNL - the one where the Russian guy tears his arms off trying to do a clean and jerk of 1500 lbs.

ETA: And this is not to say that the Players Union escapes responsibility either. Those greedy fucks are just as guilty. Sure, it's the owners fault for making them that way, but that was 40 years ago. Let it go, Indiana.

[revo]

According to Sports Illustrated, the DEA has arrested some more perps associated to Biogenesis, and it looks like a new batch of players are going to be named. All right, another PED scandal!!

[Clams]

According to Sports Illustrated, the DEA has arrested some more perps associated to Biogenesis, and it looks like a new batch of players are going to be named. All right, another PED scandal!!

Is that true about more suspensions? Need to know who. And when.

Last year I traded for Everth Cabrera a day before the suspension rumors came out. Granted that was much earlier in the season than it is now, but I'd like to avoid doing that again this year.