Looks like the Biogenesis suspensions are coming

[bryanbutler]

...this heavy-handed way of deciding the punishments first and then trying to justify them doesn't sit with me.

actually, that doesn't bother me at all. they *should* be clear regarding what the penalty is before the process starts. otherwise they'd be accused of making it up after-the-fact.

and i'm in the camp of those that prefer that the steroid users are punished. i once got in a heated argument with an old friend who i respect very much over this. his stance was that we should just legalize it all, because there was absolutely no way to police it. so just let all (legal) substances be used by athletes. i disagree. though i see his point that if you can't police it, perhaps you should stop trying, because in that case the only ones being penalized are those who *aren't* cheating.

[Hornsby]

I've come 180 degrees on this issue...I simply don't care anymore. Let them come up to the batters box with needles sticking out of their ass and I STILL wouldn't care.


I'm just tired, tired, tired, of the whole damn thing.

[joncarlos]

you mean because some of these players found loopholes to skirt failed drug tests, MLB should just look past all the alleged evidence surrounding these people taking PEDs while being in the majors? Wow.

Braun found a loophole which *probably* got him out of a test that he really should have failed. I'll concede that. Exactly what loophole did Nellie Cruz use to skirt a failed drug test? Gio Gonzalez? Jhonny Peralta? Francisco Cervelli?

The "evidence" that MLB has that they took PEDs while being in the majors is some code names on a list and the testimony of a guy who already said he knew nothing about it. Was he lying when he said it? Maybe... but then your argument is that a known liar is telling the truth this time, really really promise and cross his heart, and not just saying anything he can to get away from a relentless army of lawyers.

The 6th amendment is just as protective of the guy who was across town with hundreds of witnesses when his wife was shot as it is of the guy who walked in the room, saw a gun on the floor and picked it up right as the cops showed up. Innocent until proven guilty. Not innocent until it kinda looks like you might be guilty. And yes, I know this isn't a criminal matter but it's the same idea.

[mjl]

well then translate what he said for me please. Where is bud attempting to punish them without their due process? I must be missing something.

My understanding of what's happening is that MLB's theoretically excellent drug screening hasn't caught a lot of these people, but MLB brought a suit against the Biogenesis guy (Bosch) and then agreed to drop the suit and try to intercede on his behalf with the Feds if he'll testify that these players used PEDs that they got from him. That's pretty weasely unless you think there's no question that Bosch is telling the truth rather than trying to get out of a really bad situation the best way he can.

[Bob Kohm]

Not seeing any comment (in fairness, I might have missed it) on the allegation from yesterday that Bosch sought several hundred grand in "legal fee assistance" from ARod and when it was rebuffed offered to help MLB. Anyone see anything more on that?

[Hammer]

Braun found a loophole which *probably* got him out of a test that he really should have failed. I'll concede that. Exactly what loophole did Nellie Cruz use to skirt a failed drug test? Gio Gonzalez? Jhonny Peralta? Francisco Cervelli?

The "evidence" that MLB has that they took PEDs while being in the majors is some code names on a list and the testimony of a guy who already said he knew nothing about it. Was he lying when he said it? Maybe... but then your argument is that a known liar is telling the truth this time, really really promise and cross his heart, and not just saying anything he can to get away from a relentless army of lawyers.

The 6th amendment is just as protective of the guy who was across town with hundreds of witnesses when his wife was shot as it is of the guy who walked in the room, saw a gun on the floor and picked it up right as the cops showed up. Innocent until proven guilty. Not innocent until it kinda looks like you might be guilty. And yes, I know this isn't a criminal matter but it's the same idea.

How exactly do you know that MLB has nothing else on these players? Just because we haven't heard it on the news doesn't mean theres more evidence out there. I agree that Bosch is far from credible but at the same time, MLB has invested a lot of time and money investigating this and you hI have no idea what other evidence MLB has.

[Hammer]

My understanding of what's happening is that MLB's theoretically excellent drug screening hasn't caught a lot of these people, but MLB brought a suit against the Biogenesis guy (Bosch) and then agreed to drop the suit and try to intercede on his behalf with the Feds if he'll testify that these players used PEDs that they got from him. That's pretty weasely unless you think there's no question that Bosch is telling the truth rather than trying to get out of a really bad situation the best way he can.

I am speculating that MLB has more against these guys but couldn't tie it all together without Bosch.

[Hammer]

People rarely buy illegal substances from reputable people. Immunity happens all the time in the legal system. I don't love the tactics but I understand theres rarely ever any other way.

I want users to be punished. Its the only way to validate those who chose to play this game the right way.

[Long John]

Really? C'mon. I know you guys are smarter than that.

Or was there a different commissioner of MLB in 1996-2000 that allowed players like McGwire, Sosa and Bonds to be not only cheered, but revered for their incredible feats of artificially-enhanced strength. What efforts did he make in the mid-90s to attack PED/steroid use in the game?

None. And he had no interest in doing so because the last thing anyone wanted at that point was to bring negative attention to the game after or during one of the worst strikes in professional sports history.

We've gotten to this point because the owners (as a whole) and Selig (as an individual) lacked the vision to see the long-term repercussions of their actions and inactions.

[Erik]

That all said, I bet MLB has something more than "some code names and the testimony of a guy" but that's just my guess.

It makes no sense that they would press their case so hard unless they have more than what we know about. But sometimes MLB makes no sense.

[chancellor]

Because he is specifically attempting to punish them without proving their guilt. The union collectively bargained a process which says that if you fail a test, you're suspended. They didn't agree to "also, if you do anything that Bud doesn't like, you can be punished for that too."

Agree with the latter, disagree with the former. The union and MLB agreed to suspensions in other circumstances that just failing a test (see Jason Grimsley back about 6-7 years ago).

Beyond a doubt, MLB - and Selig especially - want to nail ARod and Braun to the wall. The only question in my view, will be whether they believe testimony of the supplier alone is going to be good enough. I suspect, however, given their desire to make an example of the two big names, that MLB will offer some level of immunity (say, like a 25 game suspension instead of 100) to the other 18 guys in exchange for their admission that they received and used PEDs from Biogenesis. There's no way ARod or Braun win in binding arbitration if that happens.

[chancellor]

Not seeing any comment (in fairness, I might have missed it) on the allegation from yesterday that Bosch sought several hundred grand in "legal fee assistance" from ARod and when it was rebuffed offered to help MLB. Anyone see anything more on that?

Here's the linky I read: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...155302905.html

If ARod had better political connections, Bosch would probably have already been charged with extortion.

[TopChuckie]

Here's the linky I read: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...155302905.html

If ARod had better political connections, Bosch would probably have already been charged with extortion.

Sure Bosch could say, "ARod, give me some money or I'm going to make up some stuff about you and tell MLB." but logic tells me if you are going to try to extort what I assume is millions of dollars from someone, you probably need to know, they know, you have legitimate dirt on them. In other words, if you're going to extort ARod you probably really do have something ARod doesn't want getting out, and that's obviously not good for ARod.

[Hornsby]

Sure Bosch could say, "ARod, give me some money or I'm going to make up some stuff about you and tell MLB." but logic tells me if you are going to try to extort what I assume is millions of dollars from someone, you probably need to know, they know, you have legitimate dirt on them. In other words, if you're going to extort ARod you probably really do have something ARod doesn't want getting out, and that's obviously not good for ARod.

So, what you're saying is that Bosch DOESN'T have enough on A-Rod to make him sweat?

[TopChuckie]

So, what you're saying is that Bosch DOESN'T have enough on A-Rod to make him sweat?

No, actually the exact opposite. I just imagine ARod, or his lawyer, realize the dirt is going to come out one way or another, no point in throwing away money on top of it, not to mention when it also comes out that he paid money to try to keep it quiet, he'll look that much worse.