Brian Cashman: Last Year as Yank GM?

[revo]

Thanks to TC for posting a link to this embarrassing post from BigJon that I had to regurgitate. This should prove to you all that while limbs are needed to go out upon, you don't need to stake all to do so:

"A Bold Statement, 12/2/06

You can quote me on this one. I have done some scouting on both pitchers and there is more upside to me with Igawa than there is Matsuzaka. Reasons...

I look at the pitches both of them throw and the types of pitchers they are. Matsuzaka is a power pitcher. Power pitchers dominate in the Japanese league. They don't so much in the Major League. Igawa is a pitcher who changes speeds and hits spots. They ARE successful in the Majors with key lefties that come to mind in Jimmy Key(no pun intended), Tom Glavine, Jamie Moyer. In Japan pitchers like Igawa get hit more often than not, but he hasn't."

Counter quote:

Nice spin.

If the Yankees thought this way also, why did they bid $12M more on Matsuzaka than their bid on Igawa (which was also inflated by the Matsuzaka bid)?

No offense, this guy is no Glavine, Key or Moyer (guys who each pitched 15+ years in the majors). Let him throw his 1st major league pitch before comparing him to those guys, just like any Matsuzaka fan won't compare him to Johan Santana just yet.....

[BuckyBuckner]

Thanks to TC for posting a link to this embarrassing post from BigJon that I had to regurgitate. This should prove to you all that while limbs are needed to go out upon, you don't need to stake all to do so:

"A Bold Statement, 12/2/06

You can quote me on this one. I have done some scouting on both pitchers and there is more upside to me with Igawa than there is Matsuzaka. Reasons...

I look at the pitches both of them throw and the types of pitchers they are. Matsuzaka is a power pitcher. Power pitchers dominate in the Japanese league. They don't so much in the Major League. Igawa is a pitcher who changes speeds and hits spots. They ARE successful in the Majors with key lefties that come to mind in Jimmy Key(no pun intended), Tom Glavine, Jamie Moyer. In Japan pitchers like Igawa get hit more often than not, but he hasn't."

Counter quote:

You needed MORE proof he was going out on a limb!?

:secretariat:

[Hammer]

You needed MORE proof he was going out on a limb!?

:secretariat:

dude, he killed a forest with that one.

[Don Quixote]

Excellent counter-argument.

Before the Yanks signed Igawa, ten teams were rumored to be interested in him and many people thought he could be successful. It was what it was, the Yanks signed him because they needed starting pitching and they thought he was their best option at that point, not because the Red Sox had just signed a Japanese pitcher. If the Red Sox had signed Barry Zito and the Mets had signed Matsuzaka, the Yanks still would have signed Igawa.

It was an awful signing, but that doesn't change the fact the Yanks' motivation was to improve their team, not to steal headlines from the Red Sox. Why did those other 9 teams want Igawa? They're obsessed with stealing headlines from the Red Sox too?

TC, it was both. Yes, they were trying to improve, but also yes, they were reacting to the Red Sox getting Matsuzaka, whom the Yankees (or at least many of their fans) thought was theirs by virtue of the Yankees wanting him ("We want, therefore we get"). The Yankees inevitably create problems for themselves when they react rather than act. Once Matsuzaka went to Boston, it was a given that the Yankees would overbid on Igawa, and that some Yankee fanatics would claim they got the better pitcher.

As it turned out, Plan A was bad enough, but at least Matsuzaka helped the Red Sox somewhat. Plan B, Igawa, was a complete and total bust. The more rational Yankee fans acknowledge that. It ranks right down there with Pavano.

[chancellor]

TC, it was both.

Good point - I was wondering why seemingly everyone was treating this as an either-or situation. At the time, there were a number of teams that thought Igawa could help their pitching staff, but couldn't pony up Yankee cash to get him. And there's nothing wrong with going after a player for marketing reasons AND baseball reasons (among other reasons).

[revo]

The ironic thing is Brian Cashman was right in his "I'm keeping my young pitching" mantra -- but he bent on that and then compounded his mistake by trading away the wrong young pitcher. After losing out on Cliff Lee and with Andy Pettitte's retirement, how much could the Yankees use Ian Kennedy & Phil Coke now? And how badly did they blunder by trading Kennedy and keeping Joba?

[Don Quixote]

The ironic thing is Brian Cashman was right in his "I'm keeping my young pitching" mantra -- but he bent on that and then compounded his mistake by trading away the wrong young pitcher. After losing out on Cliff Lee and with Andy Pettitte's retirement, how much could the Yankees use Ian Kennedy & Phil Coke now? And how badly did they blunder by trading Kennedy and keeping Joba?

In almost every analysis at the time, Kennedy was the least of the three young studs the Yankees were hyping. Trading him was therefore the least bad alternative. Dealing Joba after all the hype about him being both unhittable and untouchable would have been a PR disaster.

It could have been worse--they could have dealt Hughes and kept Kennedy. Coke was pretty much an afterthought.