Quentin just charged Greinke

[JudeBaldo]

This stathead among us doesn't dismiss team chemistry as mystical hooey. I may not be able to measure it in runs, but I believe it's incredibly important. We paid a great deal of attention and devoted a lot of effort toward that end in Houston this offseason, from the players we brought in as free agents, to our new manager, to his coaching staff, to the minor league coaches and instructors we hired.

I do think it can be hard as a fan to pick up on who is or is not contributing to good chemistry. I know that some of our fans last year desperately wanted us to fire one of our coaches who is very good at promoting chemistry and attitude in the clubhouse. They don't see what he does with the players. In fact, it's not something that the beat writers or even the front office personnel really see, except when you talk to the players and ask them which coach has made the biggest impact on them.

All that to say, yes chemistry is very important, but it can be hard as an outsider to know what kind of chemistry a team has, and why.

Excellent insight. Thanks for sharing.

[BigJonEmpire]

I think a good deal of what we call chemistry is in the daily attitude and approach of players. You want a group that does not give up when things look hopeless. You want a group that fights for every run and never gives up on a play. Guys that will support each other and provide encouragement when needed. Often all it seems to take is a strong leader to show guys the way.

[JudeBaldo]

Cards broadcaster saying Quentin got an eight gamer.

[Hornsby]

Cards broadcaster saying Quentin got an eight gamer.

MLB confirms via twitter...Harston gets one game, both are appealing. Kemp apparently gets nothing...

[JudeBaldo]

A's broadcasters reporting a metal rod was used to stabilize Greinke's clavicle.

[Judge Jude]

interesting take here with more background and quotes
not sure what to make of it

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/scott-miller/22059298/quentin-suspended-amid-ugly-history-with-greinke

[Pogues]

But yes, we can obviously say that Greinke didn't hit him on purpose. It was a 3-2 count in a 2-1 game and Quentin reaching would mean the tying run was on base. No one is really stupid enough to actually believe it was intentional except Carlos Quentin, it would appear.

Anger can cause all of us to act unreasonably in a situation. We can say Greinke didn't throw at Quentin on purpose, and Quentin is an idiot for charging him. But we don't know what ran through Quentin's mind...he probably just snapped. If Greinke wasn't injured, this incident would quickly be forgotten. Oh look, another fight.

So let's say given enough time to consider everything, Quentin wouldn't have charged the mound, as that is the reasonable decision.

But maybe, just maybe, the problem is the continuation of pitchers purposely throwing at batters. With this standard practice being continued, batters have no choice but to assume, when hit multiple times, or at the "right" or "safe" time in a game, or when the pitcher gives a particular look or stare-down, that he was hit on purpose.

MLB can't fix this. The players can, and they need to stop this stupid shit. If not, more pitchers like Greinke better toughen up or learn some defensive martial arts for their own protection.

So forgive me if I don't get upset that Greinke broke his collarbone. Frankly, in a year, it will barely be remembered.

[nullnor]

the catcher was setup low and away. it can take as little as 5 pounds of pressure to break. but the good news is it will fully heal.

you know who was a really good peace keeper was Mo Vaughn. after the incident with George Bell on sep 6 1993, you really noticed how Vaughn protected the pitcher.

you can tell both Greinke and Quentin didn't want to have to do it as they both charged into each others shoulders. also, when asked about the Ted Lilly situation recently Don Mattingly said 'it will work itself out'. as far as Greinke and Quentin this probably will result in resolving it. Quentin was a bitch trying to ask him why he threw at him in 2009 and Greinke was like leave me alone and hit him anyways.

Coco Crisp going judo with James Shields.

[JudeBaldo]

Deadspin has the parking lot incident in pictures.

http://deadspin.com/after-brawl-matt-kemp-confronts-carlos-quentin-in-park-472628284

[onejayhawk]

This stathead among us doesn't dismiss team chemistry as mystical hooey. I may not be able to measure it in runs, but I believe it's incredibly important. We paid a great deal of attention and devoted a lot of effort toward that end in Houston this offseason, from the players we brought in as free agents, to our new manager, to his coaching staff, to the minor league coaches and instructors we hired.

I do think it can be hard as a fan to pick up on who is or is not contributing to good chemistry. I know that some of our fans last year desperately wanted us to fire one of our coaches who is very good at promoting chemistry and attitude in the clubhouse. They don't see what he does with the players. In fact, it's not something that the beat writers or even the front office personnel really see, except when you talk to the players and ask them which coach has made the biggest impact on them.

All that to say, yes chemistry is very important, but it can be hard as an outsider to know what kind of chemistry a team has, and why.

Speaking of statheads, there is no consistency. Bill James seems to have coined the expression intangible runs, yet he is constantly make chemistry related comments. One that sticks in my mind is where he talks about a team's heart,in reference to a Red Sox trade.

Chemistry does not mean quiet, necessarily. Some players are bored easily and need distractions. In the 1990s the 49ers traded their clubhouse cancer to their biggest rival, the Cowboys. It was Charles Haley, who had a near HoF career with Dallas. He also mentored a remarkably dense player, named Leon Lett, to the Pro Bowl. Jimmy Johnson gave him something difficult to do, and Haley became a star for them, without wrecking their chemistry. The A's of the early 1970s had the last run of three straight titles, as well as a famously loud clubhouse.

Chemistry is that thing that brings out the best play in the players. Secondarily, it is that which helps players best work on improving their game.

J

[JudeBaldo]

What does "chemistry" even mean? Liking one another? Playing better than you otherwise would because of your team/teammates/coaches? Not having wife beaters on your team (kudos for ditching that piece of crap Myers, btw)?


At the risk of disagreeing with someone much smarter than I (as well as throwing myself directly into the "hard to know as an outsider" camp), I think that chemistry is a bunch of mystical hooey. Perhaps I'm just not understanding the definition as it's being used here, though.

It could be as broad as simply enjoying participating in an activity with one group as opposed to another.

More specifically... some studies have looked at team cohesion from the perspective of leadership, communication dynamics, etc.

Some examples:

Transformational leadership and task cohesion in sport: The mediating role of intrateam communication (Smith et al., 2013)

Objectives: Little is known about the mechanisms that might mediate the relationship between transformational leadership behaviors and follower outcomes in the sporting domain. The purpose of this study was to examine whether intrateam communication mediated the effects of transformational leadership behaviors on task cohesion. Design/Methods: A cross-sectional study of university level ultimate frisbee players (N = 199). Participants completed a measure assessing their perceptions of their captain’s transformational leadership behaviors. Post-competition, participants completed measures assessing perceptions of intrateam communication and task cohesion within their own team. Results: Multilevel analyses revealed intrateam communication to partially mediate the relationships between two of the transformational leadership behaviors and task cohesion. Conclusions: Intrateam communication is seen to be a mechanism that explains the relationship between transformational leadership and task cohesion. Overall, the results support and add to the range of positive effects associated with transformational leadership in sport, and are suggestive of interventions that may raise levels of team cohesion. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2013 APA, all rights reserved)(journal abstract)

Teammate social support, burnout, and self-determined motivation in collegiate athletes (DeFreese et al., 2013)

Objective: There is limited understanding of how specific components of social support are associated with athlete burnout and self-determined motivation, as most investigations have exclusively targeted overall support satisfaction. Therefore, the aim of this study was to examine if perceived support availability and received support, over and above support satisfaction, were associated with these correlates of psychological well-being in athletes. We also examined potential team-level variation in burnout and self-determined motivation. Design: Cross-sectional. Method: United States college athletes (N = 235; M age = 19.8 years) completed reliable and valid assessments of study variables via an online questionnaire. Results: Multilevel linear modeling showed a lack of team-level variation in burnout and self-determined motivation. Regression analyses showed perceived support availability to be inversely associated with burnout and positively associated with self-determined motivation. This was over and above support satisfaction, which demonstrated the same pattern of associations. Received support did not meaningfully associate with burnout or self-determined motivation over and above support satisfaction. Conclusion: Results suggest that the perception of support availability from teammates, regardless of received support, was an important correlate of burnout and self-determined motivation in sport. Also, the general lack of team-level variation in the criterion variables suggests that burnout and self-determined motivation perceptions were largely driven by individual experiences.

[JudeBaldo]

Don't get me wrong, I believe in team cohesion for team sports. I play ultimate frisbee and know how important teamwork is and can ken a way that chemistry would be important. Ditto basketball or football or a number of other sports. Baseball, though, is largely an individual sport (with some exceptions). What specifically would improve on a baseball team with "good chemistry"? The ability to turn double plays? Pitcher-catcher dynamics? This is exactly the kind of "chemistry" that I think is a bunch of mystical hooey with regards to baseball performance, though.

Right, Bonds and Kent hated each other, and Rickey was awesomely insane during his time with the A's. In baseball I would say that chemistry plays a role in pitcher-catcher dynamics though I'm not sure how much.

Generally, in baseball I think it's just a matter of enjoying the atmosphere in the clubhouse and the day-to-day not feeling like a grind. That's my best guess.

[Kevin Seitzer]

What does "chemistry" even mean?

This was my attempt at a definition earlier in the thread:

Yeah, I don't think good team chemistry is the same thing as everybody on the team liking each other or all being friends. It's about all working toward the same goal and having people who are able to motivate and encourage each other when times get tough. Those are important components of friendship, too, of course, but people can be friends and be bad at getting the most out of each other.

Liking one another?

No, maybe not completely irrelevant, but not what I'm talking about.

Not having wife beaters on your team (kudos for ditching that piece of crap Myers, btw)?

No, not that either.

Playing better than you otherwise would because of your team/teammates/coaches?

That's a big piece of it, although I would consider that shorthand for a larger concept. It's about teammates and coaches working together toward the same end. I can think of at least four ways that plays out.

One is on the field, where you primarily see it on defense, but to a lesser extent in other areas as well, where players are willing to work hard and hustle for the sake of the team--covering the right base, backing up throws, not missing signs, etc.

A second way is in encouraging each other to keep going through the grind of the season. This is particularly important when the team is on a losing streak. I have always heard that the 162-game schedule of major-league baseball is a real grind, but I didn't understand how much that was true until I was around it in person last year. It can be tough to stay motivated and keep trying hard throughout a long schedule if you feel like your teammates or coaches have given up.

A third way that I see chemistry play out is in the players helping each other make adjustments, as well as working efficiently with the coaches. Pro baseball is a game of constant adjustments, and if you don't adjust, your career will be short-lived. You might make it a little longer if you have exceptional talent, but not too much longer if you don't adjust. Sometimes players can make those adjustments on their own, but often it is with the help of a coach or teammate. For this to happen effectively, there has to be an atmosphere of trust in the clubhouse. If you think the coach is just trying to get you to make a change so that he can claim credit if you succeed, but if you fail, he'll blame you and write you off and move on to the next guy, you'll be reluctant to take his advice. A lot of adjustments involve doing something that feels unnatural or doesn't pay off right away, and a player who doesn't trust others in the clubhouse won't take those risks. He'll keep doing what got him to the big leagues in the first place.

A fourth thing that an atmosphere of trust promotes is honest communication about injuries if the players believe their openness won't be used against them. Hiding injuries doesn't do anyone any good, but if a player is afraid of being labeled as a wimp or malingerer, he's much more likely to hide an injury and try to play through it, even if his resulting performance is poor.

[Kevin Seitzer]

By the way, I saw all of the above break down on a team I was pretty familiar with, and it had zero to do with people not being friends. It's more about leadership and trust than friendship.

[Judge Jude]

"I have always heard that the 162-game schedule of major-league baseball is a real grind, but I didn't understand how much that was true until I was around it in person last year."

This is true of basketball and hockey as well (football is a brutal grind in its own, very different way). Anyone who follows these sports is aware that the players go all over the country to play, but it's hard to fully get the measure of that from afar (if an NBA eastern team plays 5 Western Conference games on a 7-day road trip, think of how many trips to the airport that is, and hotel check-ins, staying in another strange bed, etc.).

Traveling salesmen have their own daunting challenges, and they may have plenty of pressure on them, too. And they don't have anyone doing their laundry and they likely fly coach these days. And they don't make a ton of money like the players do.

On the other hand, their success and failure isn't televised on a nightly basis, either.